A while back there was a local news story about a steel mill. On two different channels I clearly hear black newscasters say “still mill,” and I’ve also heard a reference to the “wills” on a car. Is this some sort of reverse black dialect, where they’ve been taught not to say “steel” for “still” or “wheel” for “will,” so they just go with “still” and “will” all the time? I can’t think of another explanation.
This just cracks me up, but amazingly the newscasters manage to keep a straight face.
Why would differing pronunciations crack you up?
Are you telling me I’m free to laugh anytime someone says “New Yawk” or “Havahd.”
Until we subject all children of the earth to electro-shock training from ages 2 to 19, I think you can expect a little variety.
I ought lob a tomato and a tomahto at ya!
I don’t know if it’s a black thing, but it’s definitely a southern thing. Words like “steel” and “wheel” are often pronounced “still” and “will”. Same for “steal”, as in the sentence “Best not park yer truck there, someun’s gonna still yer tars”.
I hear black people and white people both say it here in Texas, but we’re mostly all from here.
My sister says “still” for “steel” AND “steal” and she says “will” for “wheel”. Bugs the crap out of me.
She also says “buddins” for “buttons,” and a whole boatload of other mispronounciations.
Just as a statistical data point, we’re white and from downstate Illinois.
My friends laugh at me because I say “keeeeeeeel” instead of “kill” and “peeeeeeeeeel” instead of “pill”.
But this is because I’m from the south. Not because I’m black.
…of turning nuclear (new-clear) into nukular (nuclear)
off topic.
but what did he refer to pakistani’s as again?
classy
Ok, what cracks me up is not the speech itself, but the possible reasons behind it. Newspeople are trained to lose any regional or ethnic dialects, and to speak a standard Midwestern English. And here in the Midwest, most of the people who have to change their speech are black, and they have to go to great lengths not to pronounce certain words the way they’ve always pronounced them. And I think, in an effort to do so, they actually wind up mispronouncing words they would usually pronounce correctly. And those are the **only ** words I hear them mispronouncing. That’s what I think is funny, that in an effort to lose their ethnic speech, they erroneously pronounce “steel” and “wheel” like “still” and “will.”
I suppose if I lived in the South, I would hear white people doing the same thing, possibly for the same reason.
I don’t quite understand how you think the hypercorrection works, but I’m having trouble phrasing the question. How do you think they think they sound? What kind of pronunciation are they trying to avoid?
Out here in Hollywood the black newreaders are doing just fine sounding" white,“thank you. They can say"Heighth, eck settera, & between you & I” as good as any.
And they have even graduated from sports,weather, & weekend anchors to 5PM & 11PM Monday-Friday.
Bush called 'em Paki’s, but to be fair most military folks refer to them that way
I guess it’s just me. I’ve tried pronouncing still, steel, will, and wheel over and over again and fail to hear the difference. The latter two and former two sound exactly the same any way you slice it.
I’m assuming that Bush used “Paki”, by guessing from your comment.
I’m not saying that it doesn’t make him somewhat ignorant, but remember that most Americans have probably never even heard that term, and especially don’t know that it’s a slur. I honestly didn’t know that until just recently, and I’m 33 and the resident obscure-stuff geek around these parts.
Bradjam, if you have audio capabilities on your computer, open this link: M-W entry for steel. Click on the red speaker icon next to the word in bold, and listen to the pronunciation. Then do the same with the M-W entry for still. Do they sound the same to you?
They sound very different to me. Maybe it’s your local dialect. I’m near Philadelphia; where are you?
It’s an obvious example of inferior education for the po people. That black newscaster’s mother, father and teacher probably all say** “still”** and** “will” **so how can you xpect Leroy to talk any different. It’s Axactly like an accent Axcept it’s not geographic it’s demographic. Let me Axe you this question. Have you ever known of someone that totally lost their accent? It’s a difficult thing to do. You can take the negro out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the negro!!
Most who “change” accents revert to more comfortable speech, when off the air. This includes whites.
Re: steel,still et al, don’t most Americans pronounce “Mary,” “merry,” & “marry” the same? Outside of the Northeast,that is.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by InLikeFlynn *
** Let me Axe you this question.
hahahahahaha
Wow, allow me to step aside so the flames don’t cook me with you.
The brain learns phonemes (complex sounds in spoken languages) at a young age. Other sounds get filtered out as the brain adapts to the language it hears. If you didn’t grow up hearing some sounds, then you may never hear them.
Adult speakers of English literally cannot hear certain sounds spoken by native French speakers – unless they grew up hearing French. I’m sure this is especially true with Asian languages.
I lived in one part of the US where people could not hear my real-life name correctly. No matter how many times I repeated it, they could not hear the vowels, and they could never say my name correctly. In their culture, the exact combination of phonemes in my name was never spoken. As adults, their brains had passed out of the “critical period” when neurons can learn to perceive new sounds.
Alternatively, some people come to the Straight Dope® to fight ignorance and some to wallow in it. We have already discussed several of these pronunciations in various earlier threads. For example, “ax” for “ask” dates back to dialects of English, spoken in England, prior to the fifteenth century and continuing, in several instances, today. It is probable, in fact, that the Amercian black dialect pronunciation of “ax” was learned directly from the English colonists/settlers who began consolidating their wealth in slavery and not devceloped, independently, within the black community.
Similarly, we have already had several attributions on this thread that the steel/still pronunciation tends to occur in different Souther U.S. regions–crossing any perceived “racial” barrier.