Inspired by the Casinos threadhere in GQ.
I’m familiar with casino craps as played both in Las Vegas and Atlantic City (the biggest difference, to me, being a prohibition against the “sucker bets” Big 6 and Big 8 in AC).
How does street craps (cf. Guys & Dolls) differ from the traditional casino game?
I think it’s obviously different in that it’s usually played against a curb, and that “the point” is most or all of the game but I’m not sure.
In case it comes up, Big 6 and Big 8 are sucker bets because they pay even money, while placing the 6 or 8 will pay 7 for a $6 bet.
Street craps is just Pass Line. Does the shooter make his point before crapping out? That’s pretty much it. Pass, Don’t Pass. As opposed to the casino game, which throws another couple of dozen ways to bet at you, most with a really lousy house edge. Of course, the casino game also gives you the option to take odds, which really reduces the house edge to just about even.
It doesn’t have to be played against a curb or a wall, but it can be. It’s pretty much Pass/Don’t Pass.
Somebody says “Who will play me for $20?” Or, in the language of Guys and Dolls, “Someone fade me for $20.” This Guy will be the shooter, and will automatically be assumed to be playing the Pass Line (or in street crap terminology, he will be betting “right”). At the same time, Guy will drop his $20 on the floor. Guy will be the “shooter,” as by asking for somebody to cover his bet (to “fade” his bet), he has announced that he intends to throw the dice.
Buddy wants to play. He steps up, says, “I’ll cover that,” or similar, and drops his $20 on top of Guy’s $20–the game winner will pocket $40. Buddy is automatically assumed to be playing Don’t Pass (betting “wrong”), and is known as the “fader.”
The game begins, and Guy shoots the dice (the come-out roll). As you would expect, a roll of 2, 3, or 12 means that Guy loses and Buddy wins. A roll of 7 or 11 means that Guy wins and Buddy loses. Any other number becomes Guy’s point, and he must roll that before a 7, in order to win. If Guy rolls a 7 before his point number, he loses (he “sevens-out”) and Buddy wins. It’s that simple, and still exists as Pass/Don’t Pass bets on casino crap tables.
A few key differences between the street game and the casino game:
– There are no odds in the street game. Neither Guy nor Buddy can back up their respective bets with an odds bet. Every bet in a street game is for even money.
– The shooter (Guy) is always playing Pass, and the fader (Buddy) is always playing Don’t Pass. In a casino, the shooter can play Don’t Pass if he wants to.
– There is no table. Oh, you can play on a table, or the floor, or any flat surface. Also, as I implied, there is no rule about bouncing the dice off a table wall, as in a casino.
– If the shooter on a casino table sevens-out, the dice pass to the player to his or her left. In the street game, sevening-out does not necessarily mean that the shooter loses the dice–the shooter can keep shooting, as long as he or she has the cash to put up.
Perhaps most importantly, in the street game, players are playing against each other directly. Buddy can cover all of Guy’s $20, but if he only wanted to cover $5 of Guy’s $20, he could, as long as other players bet the difference to cover (“fade”) all of Guy’s $20. But this is a big difference from the casino game, where players do not play each other, and the house fades every bet on the table.
Hope this helps!
How do people playing street craps deal with don’t pass having a positive expectation? In the casino the don’t pass bet is a push if the shooter craps out with a 12. That’s what gives the house an edge over anyone betting the don’t pass. How is this handled by people playing street craps?
When everyone is playing against each other, someone’s going to get a positive-expectation bet. In this case it’s the fader.
I suppose that you could, in principle, go to a street craps game and always fade everyone but never shoot, but I expect that’ll make you unpopular, because if everyone does that then nobody ever plays.
Since this is about a game, let’s move it to the Game Room.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
You could make it extremely close to even odds if the shooter lost half their bet to the fader on a 12 instead of the shooter losing 100% and (in the casino) the fader pushing. Since even in a casino Don’t is very slightly more favorable to the player than Pass, the fader would have the edge still, but it would be minuscule.
If you’ve got 4 players, how does the betting work? Are the 3 non-shooters always putting up smaller amounts that total the shooters bet? Can non-shooters bet the pass if there’s another fader willing to match? What if 2 faders want to match the shooters initial bet? Is one guy out of luck if the shooter isn’t willing to double his bet?
I’m guessing it’s pretty much a house rules thing, but curious how this is normally addressed.
Sometimes people will be playing street Cee-Lo rather than regular Craps.
You could have A fading B, while C fades D at the same time. You could have one guy rolling big money, with everyone else pooling together to fade him. You could have people taking turns to roll, with everyone else deciding whether or not to fade on each roll. Basically, it’s just whatever the people present happen to agree to, very informal.
Chronos has laid it out pretty well. In the street games I’ve played in, any number of bets are occurring between players who are not involved in the main game.
Certainly, I myself have bet another before the come-out roll (when neither of us is playing the main game): “Listen, I’ll take Shooter’s position for $5. Will you fade me?” Meaning that I am playing Pass, my fader is playing Don’t Pass, and we agree to play according to what Shooter rolls.
Similarly, if Shooter wants to play for $50–well, that’s a little too rich for me. But I’ll take $5 or $10 worth of that action. All I need now is for one or two or more players to make up the balance, so our bets totalled make up $50, in order to match Shooter’s bet. If we win, we’ll be paid off in proportion, so if I bet $5 and we all win, I’ll win $5.
Prop bets can also occur between non-participating players: for example, “I’ll bet you X to Y that Shooter rolls any hardway before a 7.” Not a bet I would accept (especially if the odds stated are ridiculous, which they usually are), but some people do.
In the end, there are the basic rules to street craps, which are never in dispute; and then there are the bets that players can agree to between themselves. As Chronos stated, things can be very informal.
As an aside, this was how Nick the Greek made his money: He didn’t bet against the house; he made side bets against other gamblers which he knew were positive expectation.
I’m not sure if Vegas still allows side action that they don’t have a piece of, but of course you’ll still find it at street games.
Here is a great match that will really teach you the nuances of playing street dice. http://www.cc.com/video-clips/jwy71h/chappelle-s-show-the-world-series-of-dice---uncensored
How does it make sense to have a “World Series” of a game of pure chance?
LOL, because the Chappelle show was awesome.