Strip clubs or no strip clubs?

Great Debates
1

I like women. I like booze. I like black lights and loud music and exotic surroundings. I enjoy partial or complete nudity of the opposite sex. I like the combination of all of these in places known as Strip or Topless clubs. I enjoy the tantalizing possibility of a sexual connection – paid for or free. I enjoy watching the nude or partially nude female form. I like being ‘teased’ and ‘toyed’ with, even though I know it is my money desired and not my rugged, good looks. I like stepping out from the harsh, real world into one of color, subdued lights, perfume, cigarette smoke and fantasy with the ability to quaff an alcoholic beverage or two in order to alter my emotional and mental state and to ‘dream’ a little. I find it exciting, gratifying, pleasant and erotic.

I love the glitter, the skimpy clothing, the pretty clothing, the pretty girls parading in front of me which would not happen on the street, the alluring looks they give – even though I know it is part of their job – the excitement of other customers, the light shows and the occasional warm touch of a dancers body accompanied by a wiff of perfume.

I’m not a freak, creep, sexual deviate, rapist, molester, drunkard nor drugger. I’m just an average guy who occasionally likes to go see pretty women dancing in an altered environment, pretty women I can dream of but no doubt never actually be with outside of prostitution.

I have no problem with women visiting such clubs designed for them or visiting my clubs. I am a consumer of pornography, though I draw the line at violent, or kiddy, or sadistic items. I have no problem with women or men owning and/or using sexual toys among themselves. I have no problem with people exploring or enjoying their own sexuality.

I am, believe it or not, a Christian, though some might dispute that. (I don’t care.) I smoke, drink, read tit tie mags – (well, closely examine the pictures anyhow) – and do not bother anyone. I find no problem with women who chose to do the same as I --(even to their beef cake magazines).

I do have a major problem with some small group of religious, sexually frustrated or over cautious people who manage to get the clubs I like to visit closed up and banned from the local township. It has always bothered me that the customers of said clubs, and there are thousands of such people, will not fight to prevent such happenings. Especially if said clubs do not have an inordinate history of criminal activities. I have no problem with some clubs being closed due to major prostitution, too many violent encounters, drug related issues, becoming hangouts for gangs or knowingly forcing women into performing against their will for whatever reason.

People, men especially, are drawn to sex. Sex sells. Pornography, topless clubs, sexual toys and whatever have never been completely suppressed nor wiped out – just harder to find. Like prohibition. When booze was banned, one could buy it almost anywhere because people wanted it, though the holier-than-thou’s, a small group in comparison to the rest of the nation, did not.

So, why, when a small group decides that adult clubs are ‘nasty’, do so many people sit by and blandly allow them to enforce their beliefs on the many and get the clubs shut down?

So, now millions in dollars once spent in such places travel now to the closest city which has them, and it is growing. What do you think? Should a small minority of ‘religious and upright citizens’ be able to deprive the majority of things they enjoy? (Show me a city Council member, especially male, who does not own porn in some way or another, does not like drinking, nude women or getting turned on and I’ll shake your hand.) I know that some of the city leaders who helped remove some of the clubs in one city used high priced prostitutes, had their own collection of hard porn and routinely ‘confiscated’ selections of illegal pornographic materials the cops seized before destroying them. (Hey, the actual amount of material that hit the furnaces consisted mainly of empty boxes and junk by the time the police finished ‘examining’ the materials.)

Why do so many people sit by and let people tell them what they can or cannot enjoy when it comes to sex, provided that they are not hurting themselves nor others? I like strip clubs. Do you?

2

I suppose the reason people don’t defend the clubs like you would expect them to is because they would be held to ridicule and shame.

I totally agree with you, I go to strip clubs every once in a while. But I would feel ashamed to publicly admit it in a group of my peers. I should NOT feel ashamed, but I have been led to feel that way, mostly by the women in my life.
And I doubt public officials will ever be able to say they are not against the clubs, for fear of taking political damage of being against “family values”, whatever those are.

3

You’ve got my vote.

But no kids. No pets. No cruelty of any kind.

4

At first I had the usual female poor opinion of strip clubs. But my little sister has been “dancing” for 3 years or so now, and I have a close friend that is really successfull at it. (Currently in Reno)

So my opinion has changed a bit. I don’t want to hang there very often, but going into a club where they are working is actually fun sometimes. It can be very stimulating also, say, if you brought your SO and both had a dance.

Did you know most gentlemen’s clubs won’t let a girl or a group of girls in without a male escort? Don’t want their business distracted by women that are actually available and on the prowl.

I usually have to have my sister or my friend call the doorperson and tell them I’ll be there on a specific night, or else try and meet the doorperson so they know me and will let me in by myself.

Carpe Jugulum

5

I used to be a dancer in one of those bars. I’ve been happily retired for 5 years.
All the women I’ve run into have said they are happy to be out of it.
You don’t realize that your being exploited until after you quit.
That said, it IS all about the money, for sure.
But also, I met quite a few nice guys there who I would consider my friends.
They are now trying to close down all the clubs by the airport in my city(Cleveland).

6

“Exploitation” is a very slippery term. Under some definitions, everyone who is working for wages is being exploited. Under others, even slaves are not being exploited. Since this very pejoritave term has been mangled beyond any hope of recovery, I generally consider any use of it without an explicit definition to be propaganda.

7

Okay, I meant I didn’t realize how cheap I felt til after I was done with it.
Actually, the customers were being exploited, I would think. $5 for a drink for me?
I didn’t consdier it worth that.

8

Ah, but the real question, my dear orangecakes, is do you think they should shut down the clubs in Cleveland?

9

“dear”? I don’t know what difference it would make what I thought. I’m not exactly out there lobbying or voting against it am I? :wink:
I would feel like a hypocrite if I did though.
Nah, they have a right to stay open. :slight_smile:

10

There is a specific reason why I feel your opinion is very pertinent to this issue. Many strip club opponents talk about the exploitation of women as a primary reason for closing them. Since you mentioned that you felt exploited, I wondered about your sentiments.

Sorry if the “dear” offended you.

11

I used to go to the Detroit area on business quite frequently, and I noticed a lot of automotive business is transacted in these establishments. I learned that most of the “dancers” were of Russian or E European origin (Poland, Ukraine, etc.). Most of these girls were hardheaded businesswomen-their goal was to accumulate $200-400,000 in cash, and retire to their native countries. Most made between $400-700/day (untaxed)-seems like a good deal to me!

12

I think strip clubs generate a disturbing illusion.

Patrons thereof are willing to surrender money to temporarily sustain the fantasy that beautiful women are willing to grant them slavish attention, even though they know, deep in their hearts, that it’s the money and not anything else that’s making things happen.

I’d be ashamed of myself if I did that.

That said, I wouldn’t legislatively deny such clubs permission to operate. But since I do believe that zoning is a legitimate exercise of municipal power, I think reasonable restrictions on the placement of such clubs is appropriate.

  • Rick
13

I don’t think that anyone wants to lead the brigade to fight the holier-than-thou’s because it’s not really the hill they want to die on.
I’m a female, I’ve been to clubs, my husband goes occasionally with the boys (maybe once a year) and I have absolutely no problem with them being around. I also am not really so into them that I’m going to be the one rallying the troops.

The attitude in my area, though, just kills me. There is a group of people here who want to get rid of all the riff-raff businesses because, for some reason, they think this is a “family beach.” This place is loaded with strip clubs, biker bars, underground tattoo shops, nightclubs, XXX shops, and pages upon pages of escort services in the phone book. I hate to break it to them, but if they want the local economy to continue to thrive and have the big bucks come in with the gazillion golfers that visit here, not to mention the spring breakers, Harley riders, etc., they’re going to have to give up their fantasy vision of a “family beach.”

The lates controversy surrounding strip clubs has to do with Thee Dollhouse, which I think is one of the nicer stripping establishments in this area. They’ve started making the women wear tops because it’s within 300 yards of a residential zone. The zone, however, is being used as a golf course. And, it’s on the other side of the Intracoastal Waterway from the club.

So, Bricker, I agree with you that zoning laws should be enforced, but shutting down a business on a technicality because of what really is an attempt to enforce morality is not, to me, reasonable.

14

To all the communities in the US: Please shut down all those horrible exploitive and immoral strip joints, adult bookstores, peep shows, etc. My internet porn business could use the additional customers! :wink:

15

OH! COOL!

I was actually gritting my teeth when I hit the post button, halfway expecting to be called a pervert, ect., ect. Instead I find thoughtful and excellent responses. I’m impressed.

Exploitation? Perhaps, in some but most of the dancers I’ve known like what they do, including the few who promote a little prostitution on the side. I’ve known some who were so into drugs that I wondered how they could dance, and a few who hated the business but liked the enormous amount of ‘untaxable’ money they could earn.

Yeah. Us customers get exploited. The $5 7 up and wine drinks that are often mostly 7 up, the $10 lap dance, the $10 fully clothed ‘sweethearts’ dance. The $2.50 cent bar beers, but, hey, so what? I used to kick back and watch how expertly some of the dancers ‘handled’ drunk customers, milking them with a combination of seduction, the possibility of just maybe, almost and potential sexual encounters in order to pry more money out of them. They guys did not mind when some chesty dancer clad in only a glittering G string, looking as exotic and beautiful as hell through the haze of black lights, dim light, wearing skillfully applied make up and glitter gently rubbed her fingers through his hair, sat in his lap and placed her small, soft hands on his chest as her firm, large breasts hovered tantalizingly just below his chin and her great, large bedroom eyes looked smolderingly into his.

(WHEW! I think I need a cold shower.) Yeah. They got me too and I willingly dumped out the extra cash – but being somewhat smart, I never go into a topless bar with more than I intend to spend.

Most guys just love that shit, even knowing that the chances of them bedding such a girl are next to nothing.

They could dream though and when they left after being flirted with, they felt a whole hell of a lot better about themselves. Even guys like to THINK they’re attractive. I used to like to take some of the dancers to breakfast after the bar closed – I was kinda a regular in some clubs. It was fun to listen to them chatter, to be accepted in their group, to watch other guys eyes pop out when I walked in with 4 beautiful women who were only interested in a meal and no hassles. (It was also kind of flattering when I had to remind some guys that the girls, who did not want to be bothered, were with me. I felt like a stud!)

I’ve known some places that I was glad to see closed down, where the bouncers and bar tenders dealt drugs, used underaged dancers and fed them drinks and drugs, ran prostitution out of the back and took a cut and had far too many biker guys making pain in the asses out of themselves.

In general, though, I had no problem defending the clubs. If anyone asked me to sign something to shut one down that I liked, I refused. If asked, and often if not asked, I let people know I liked ‘titty’ bars. It really burned my ass when most of my favorite ones were shut down because the city counsel suddenly got morals due to some small religious or morality group.

Especially since I knew a couple of working girls who were getting $500 a trick to service the assistant mayor, the chief of police and a couple of the leading counsel members. (It seems the assistant mayor liked one of the girls to wear pigtails and little girlie stuff. Hmmmmm!!)

One club even let off duty cops drink mainly for free because so long as they were there, the troublesome bikers stayed away.

Yeah, I guess I ‘exploited’ the dancers, but they ‘exploited’ me, so it worked out fine for us all and after a hard day of facing the generally nasty public, it was and is great to be flirted over – even if I have to pay for it. Heck, none of my girlfriends ever flirted over me in such an erotic, exotic way after I came home from a hard day.

I love topless clubs!

16

Where’s the illusion, if everybody knows the truth? And what’s disturbing about it?

17

Sentinel refered to:

This intrigued me. I was not aware of this particular subculture. How are these ties attached to the tits? Not clips, I hope :D. Or is it just a long tie around the neck running between the tits? <tee hee>

BTW- I do like strip clubs too. Here in Baltimore, when they wrote the law requiring pasties and G-strings, the made a small error. no one realized for over a year! When they figured it out, whoosh! the full monty was back!!The city decided to leave it like that “for the tourists.” ( are we big hearted or what?)

Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.