Stump my friend with Tolkien....

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

I agree with Clark K. I, too, am desperate to learn the answer about the chapter in The Hobbit that was re-edited. Regarding my own humble queries:

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In the short story Leaf by Niggle, Niggle’s troublesome neighbor was named “Parrish.”

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In the short story (novella?) Farmer Giles of Ham, Farmer Giles’ dog was named “Garm.” And, yes, he was prone to bullying and bragging! (For bonus points, I believe Farmer Giles’ favorite cow was named Galatea, but the Giant trod on her and stomped her flat.)

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The self-explanatory name of the novella to which this refers is “Smith of Wootten Major” (I hope the spelling is right. It has been many years since I re-read this one.)

Still looking for a star in my Birthday Cake –
Tenar

42

Well, okay. “Gnome,” is used in The Book of Lost Tales to refer to the Noldoli. In the Silmarillion, they’re called the Noldor. They’re primarily distinguished from the Sindar (“Elves” in The Book of Lost Tales), but are still Eldar/elves by species.

“Elu”/“Elwe” probably comes from the word for star.

And Tolkien didn’t explicitly say that elves had pointed ears, but in a linguistic note, he says their ears were leaf-like.

43

Ahh, a Tolkien thread. Naturally, I feel quite at home. :wink:

The “expert” named the three easiest wizards. Anyone with class would have immediately interjected Alatar and Pallando.

Here’s a nice one.

What happened to Mr. Bliss’ motor car?

This will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Oh, and let’s hear a line or three from Tolkien’s poem in Gothic.

MR

44

Oh, and since we are all such quizlords, let’s see if anyone knows why Tolkien clung to the term “Gnome” for so long despite nearly overwhelming objection to its application to a seven foot tall elf.

It’s etymological.

MR

45

Ooh, I know this…it’s from the Greek for “to know,” hence its suitability (he thought) for the “intellectual” Noldor…

46

-i]The Hobbit* re-edit: Originally, “Riddles in the Dark” ended with Gollum meekly leading Bilbo to the surface without running into any goblins. I don’t remember why it was changed, since I found the trilogy itself fairly dull. Tolkien should have also fixed the early part of “Riddles” where he says no one knows what Gollum’s real name is, since Gandalf says in the trilogy it’s Smeagol, and also amended Hobbit where it says Gollum refers to himself as “My Precious,” when that’s really the Ring.

Want the original? Look for Masterpieces of Terror and the Su-ernatural, Marvin Kaye, editor, Doubleday, 1985, ISBN 0-385-18549-9.

47

*Bagme Bloma

*Brunaim bairiþ bairka bogums
Laubans liubans liudandei
gilwagroni, glitmunjandei,
bagme bloma, blauandei,
fagrafahsa, liþulinþi,
fraujinondei fairguni.

Wopjand windos, wagjand lindos,
lutiþ limam laikandei;
slaihta, raihta, hweitarinda,
razda rodeiþ reirandei,
bandwa bairhta, runa goda,
þiuda meina þiuþjandei.

Andanahti milhmam neipiþ,
liuhteiþ liuhmam lauhmuni;
laubos liubai fliugand lausai,
tulgus, triggwa, standandei.
Bairka baza beidiþ blaika
fraujinondei fairguni. *

Flower of the Trees

The birch bears fine leaves on shining boughs, it grows pale green and glittering, the flower of the trees in bloom, fair-haired and supple-limbed, the ruler of the mountain.

The winds call, they shake gently, she bends her boughs low in sport; smooth, straight and white-barked, trembling she speaks a language, a bright token, a good mystery, blessing my people.

Evening grows dark with clouds, the lightning flashes, the fine leaves fly free, but firm and faithful the white birch stands bare and waits, ruling the mountain.

[sub]A beautiful poem with music in the words.

But I have the very devil of a time saying “Bagme Bloma” to people without them thinking it’s something obscene. :rolleyes:[/sub]

48

Here’s a stumper:

Identify Tinfang Warble.

49

Okay, I’ll reveal the answer. In one of Tolkien’s letters, he says that Tom was partially a symbol for “the vanishing spirit of the English countryside.” In another letter he says that Tom was intended to remain a mystery.

50

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Ecthelion was Denother’s father, was he not?

O

51

Also, Ulmo was the name for the “good God” in the Middle Earth pantheon.

The oldest creature was Fangorn/Treebeard.

Q: From whom was Sauron merely a servant or emissary? Who is the REAL big baddie?

O

Hoosier Daddy?!

52

The real big baddie was cast out into the Void at the end of the First Age of Sun. After that, Sauron was his own boss.

53
  • Morgoth or Delu-Morgoth
54

His original name was Melkor, and he was known to the Elves as Morgoth Bauglir.

Can’t remember who asked, bet Elwë Singollo/Elu Thingol’s brother was Olwë. Olwë led the rest of the Teleri to Valimar.

55

I just remembered another one: Mandos’ real name is Nàmo. Mandos strictly refers to his palace, the Halls of the Dead.

56

Well done pulling up Bagme Bloma.

Katisha, the fact that the etymological root is similar to Greek is pretty coincidental. It would have been grossly inconsistent to a man like JRRT to use Ancient Greek as a translated language for Middle Earth in any capacity. Keep digging. :wink:

No one has been able to tell me what happened to Mr. Bliss’ motor car?

57

*Curiously, the Quenya for ‘fire’ is nár, which just happens to be exactly identical to the Arabic word for ‘fire’. Arabic, of all languages! And here I thought Tolkien’s shtick was northwestern Europe. Do you think he was ever aware of the coincidence? Or was his linguistic palantír, so to speak, permanently turned away from the region of Far Harad?

More Arabic: the word man ‘who’ is exactly identical with the Arabic word for ‘who’.

Another coincidence: the pronoun te ‘them’ (as in the Cormallen Fields song, “a laita te ‘bless them!’”) is identical with the Sanskrit third person plural pronoun te, ‘they’.

The verbal stem car- ‘make, do’ is exactly identical with the verbal stem kar- ‘make, do’ in Sanskrit and Persian.

The preposition ter ‘through’ has the same meaning in Proto-Indo-European, as does the related word tar ‘beyond’ in Sanskrit.

The 1st-person pronoun ni ‘I’ means the same thing in Basque.

The conjunction o ‘and’ is the same word in Persian.

There are near resemblances in other languages, e.g. atar ‘father’, Turkish ata ‘father’. Vanda ‘vow, oath, solemn pledge’, Mongolian anda ‘vow, oath, solemn pledge of alliance’. Nissi ‘women’, Estonian naisi ‘women’.

(For cites of all these etyma, see the Quenya Corpus Wordlist.)

The word for ‘light’ is silmë; compare with the Finnish word for ‘eye’: silmä. This resemblance, I am confident, was deliberate.

Likewise ilm-, stem appearing in Ilmen, the region above the air where the stars are, Ilmarë, name of a Maia, and Ilmarin “mansion of the high airs” — compare with Finnish ilma ‘air’.

58

What’s a tark?

59

Jeez guys…

I’m gone for a few days and you keep posting. I wish I could help but I’m a Tolkien amateur. My friend is on vacation and won’t be back for another week. I’m glad all is going well.

60

Tark is Orkish for ‘man of Gondor’. A debased form of tarkil, a Quenya word used in Westron for one of Númenorean descent. (Appendix F)

So no one has identified Tinfang Warble? Looks like I really did stump the band. Although I checked after posting and it isn’t hard to find out about Tinfang. Google knows all, tells all.

At least be glad I didn’t bring up “Goblin Feet.” :rolleyes: