“Firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992[26] to 7% of all suicides in 2005.[27] Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.”
“For example, Ozanne-Smith et al. (2004)[31] in the journal Injury Prevention found a reduction in firearm suicides in Victoria, however this study did not consider non-firearm suicide rates. Others have argued that alternative methods of suicide have been substituted. De Leo, Dwyer, Firman & Neulinger,[32] studied suicide methods in men from 1979 to 1998 and found a rise in hanging suicides that started slightly before the fall in gun suicides. As hanging suicides rose at about the same rate as gun suicides fell, it is possible that there was some substitution of suicide methods.”
Do you see the difference between your quotes and the two studies I cited? Studies which control for various factors and drew a conclusion that disagrees with you? You keep posting the same thing over and over as if it means something. Find a study that examined the affect of Australia’s gun buyback program on suicides that came to a different conclusion than the two that I’ve cited.
So you’ve extrapolated from “it is possible that this was true of some cases in this instance” to “this will happen”. Pardon me for not considering this conclusive.
ETA: Whoa there, Bob. Even I’m not much of a Feinstein fan.
That seems to be the american way. In other countries they do it different.
"The leading method of suicide varies between countries. The leading methods in different regions include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms.[71] These differences are believed to be in part due to availability of the different methods.[58] A review of 56 countries found that hanging was the most common method in most of the countries,[72] accounting for 53% of the male suicides and 39% of the female suicides.[73] Worldwide 30% of suicides are from pesticides. The use of this method however varies markedly from 4% in Europe to more than 50% in the Pacific region.[74] It is also common in Latin America due to easy access within the farming populations.[58] In many countries, drug overdoses account for approximately 60% of suicides among women and 30% among men.[75] Many are unplanned and occur during an acute period of ambivalence.[58] The death rate varies by method: firearms 80-90%, drowning 65-80%, hanging 60-85%, car exhaust 40-60%, jumping 35-60%, charcoal burning 40-50%, pesticides 6-75%, medication overdose 1.5-4%.[58] The most common attempted methods of suicide differ from the most common successful methods with up to 85% of attempts via drug overdose in the developed world.[24]
In the United States 57% of suicides involve the use of firearms with this method being somewhat more common in men than women.[13] The next most common cause was hanging in males and self poisoning in females.[13] Together these methods comprised about 40% of U.S. suicides.[76] In Switzerland, where nearly everyone owns a firearm, the greatest number of suicides are by hanging. [77] Jumping to one’s death is common in both Hong Kong and Singapore at 50% and 80% respectively.[58] In China the consumption of pesticides is the most common method.[78] In Japan self disembowelment known as seppuku or hara-kiri still occurs[78] however hanging is the most common.[79]"
And the USA is certainly not an outlier in the total suicide department:
Gun buybacks cause suicides!?!? No wonder you’re so concerned! Holy shit, Seinfeld went off the air in 1998 and there was a big spike! Despondent Seinfeld fans must have offed themselves in droves!
See, this is why you can’t just look at the raw data. What else happened in 1996? How did the population change? What about the economy, a driving factor behind many suicides? You need to account for all of these factors before drawing a conclusion. If only there were 2 studies I’d cited where people did account for those factors and declared the substitution theory to be bunk. If only…
I am legitimately impressed by the time and effort you’ve dedicated to this thread, Kable. Being incomprehensible that you would spend so much time away from your arsenal, may we assume that your underground bunker is Internet-connected?
Sure you can look at the raw data. Or you can apply whatever factors you want, ignore what you want, and come up with the data that your “researchers” want to support their theory. But the facts are that a lot of guns were taken off the street, and suicides went up anyway. So sorry.
Obviously not. They should walk proudly into Walmart, their NRA patch gleaming, pick up an AR15 and go splatter their brains all over the place – maybe take a few fuckers with him in the process, huh?
Listen, Rambo, assisted suicide is about as far afield from gun-rights as ladders and pools are. Do you think you can stick to one goddamned point, that is if you’re actually trying to make one?
I think Kable is right; I think it was causal. See, what happened is that all the gun strokers who impulsively sold their guns back ended up mired in remorse, so they punched their tickets.
Because if you look at Kable’s own data, the suicide rate actually drops consistently from 1998 onward (when presumably the gun ban remained in effect).
This guy is remarkably stupid. I mean breathtakingly so.
Not an outlier, but 1997 was the peak of a mild growth in suicides that began diminishing thereafter.
Your point remains, though. Describing the gun buy back as causing an increase in suicides in Australia is as dishonest to the data as his effort to suggest that it caused an increase in rapes.
The guy has to be a troll. I think he’s also very, very stupid, but troll nevertheless.