I suspect that male escorts in public would actually reduce a person’s risk of being sexually assaulted. I suspect that female escorts in public would also do the same thing. Do you disagree?
Not at all! Implement the policy, forthwith. Have yet to hear where you stand on burkas. From what I hear, they’re very popular in countries that also like to keep women safe by requiring escorts.
Sure. But isn’t it at least as important to identify the things people can do to reduce their risk of sexually assaulting someone? Maybe we should have curfews and chaperones for men, instead of constantly focusing on how we need to encourage restricting the actions of women.
The issue with traditional “rape prevention” tips is that they don’t actually prevent rape. Rapists continue to rape. If the victim they chose is not suitable, they find someone else.
I prefer “risk reduction” because some things I can do may lower MY risk, but there is really only one way to prevent rape - stop the rapist from raping. This means looking at the offender instead of how a potential victim
Can adjust their behaviour. There are a few ways, for example, not objectifying women in the media and amongst each other. I am not saying everyone that tells a sexist joke is a rapist, but if there is someone in your circle that is already thinking this way, that comment may now validate and show them “everyone thinks that way”.
Another way is to make sure that everyone is informed about consent - only yes means yes, and it is the responsibility of the one instigating the sexual activity to make sure they have consent.
Finally, de-stigmatize sexual assault. One thing the Me Too movement is showing is that the vast majority of women (and many men) have a “story”.
Not if the escorts are rapists.
Just to be clear here, when you say “not suitable” = “not raped”?
I think I did say that. But there is still a large element of bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because you’re not going to get raped unless you cross paths with a rapist. It’s not like normal guys assault women just because they’ve done something to make themselves vulnerable.
Yes.
So I may be able to learn techniques/do things to reduce my personal risk**, I haven’t stopped rape, I have maybe just have made myself just inconvenient enough that the rapist will have to find another target.
** And even then, not generally, since most techniques have to do with stranger rape, which is far less likely than rape by someone you know.
After all, not much good is the “Don’t put your hair in a ponytail which is easy to grab” if the person that rapes me was the man that took me on a date that night and not some deviant in a park.
The other issue with traditional “rape prevention” technique is that since they** DON**'T work to prevent rape - again because the vast majority are not getting jumped in an alley, or someone unknown targeting you - they feed into the idea that “If only I had yelled “FIRE” or covered my drink, this would not have happened.”
Rape is NOT the victim’s fault.
The fault of a crime rests solely on the shoulders of the person committing the crime, and trying to reason it out in “what could the victim have done differently to prevent being a victim” is cruel and futile - the only way to prevent rape is to stop people from raping.
Period.
I’m don’t know that their is any evidence that minimal clothing makes a difference. None. It’s like Korean Fan Death. It seems “obvious”, but there’s never been any indication that it makes any difference, and some evidence that it doesn’t. So raising a half the population to believe that they are in danger when they aren’t does nothing except limit women’s freedoms.
For the other, the question isn’t whether it increases risk–it raises risk for men and women in an absolute sense. The question is rather if it increases risk a meaningful amount for women and not for men. I mean, if it moves your odds of being assaults from 1 in a million to 2 in a million, it’s pretty trivial.
You are making the assumption that the shift in risk is still within “reasonable tolerance” for men but the shift in risk for women moves it into the “foolish” range. Why does that seem self-evident to you?
But WHY is this a tragedy we are powerless to do anything about?
You are suggesting that women need to live their lives like men do in very, very high crime areas, like a gang-ridden inner city. I don’t know where you live, but presumably it’s not a gang-ridden inner city. If it started to become like that–if your neighbors all told you that you should never jog alone after dark, that if a stranger approaches you, you should be rude and walk quickly away, that you should never answer your door if you don’t expect someone–you’d move. You’d demand better police protection. If the entire country was getting like that, it would be a God Damn National Crisis. But for the whole world to be like a gang-ridden inner city for women is apparently just fucking inevitable and nothing can be done.
Poysyn, right on both counts. Reducing my risk just moves the risk to an easier target. A rapist is hunting…if this isn’t a good target, move to the next target.
And most rapes are “date rapes” - in order to have prevented my rape, I would have had to not been doing my job - since I was raped while alone with my boss while doing my job. Don’t go up to a guy’s apartment, or let a guy into yours unless you know you want to have sex with him is rather limiting during courtship, its good safety advice - its lousy "get a second or third date advice since the perfectly nice guy you are with who isn’t a rapist (but you don’t know that) thinks you think he’s a rapist (whiv=ch you don’t, but he MIGHT be and better safe than sorry) or just standoffish.
I should be able to wear workout clothes if what I’m doing is going on a date that involves riding bikes in the park, or going for a run, or heading to the beach, or playing tennis.
Also, to be perfectly clear: I don’t actually think women NEED to live their lives as if they live in a gang-ridden inner city. I walk after dark. I don’t check the back seat of my car before I get in it. I travel alone. I look at my phone at the park while my son plays. And I don’t think I am engaging in behavior that is foolish. But I am told that I am. I am told–by you, among others–that I am engaging in risky behavior, that I am unwise. I am told that if I get mugged or raped while I am doing these things it’s “not my fault” but I was foolish to live my life that way–doing very normal things that even a 14 year old boy could do and no one would consider risky–and that while again, “it’s not my fault”, I still should accept that it’s just how the world is.
It’s an incredibly toxic narrative that doesn’t seem to do much to reduce rape by DOES have the effect of dramatically limiting my ability to function, not to mention my personal freedoms.
I get the impression that some people are thinking (with I have no idea how much if any justification) of rape as a crime of opportunity: the rapist didn’t go out looking for someone to rape, but an opportunity just happened to prevent itself. As if someone who hadn’t been looking to steal a car happened to see a nice-looking car with the keys left in the ignition.
I get the impression that some people think that rape is caused by men being so overcome by the sight of some bit of a female body (including bits that they see all the time) that they become unable to control their sexual impulses and just have to rape the person. But if they didn’t happen to see anybody in gym clothes (or whatever), then they wouldn’t rape anybody.
I think this is both untrue, and insulting to men.
This is so often overlooked - that apparently men are so incredibly ruled by lust that the sight of me in yoga pants will have them overcome and like a dog in heat, they will absolutely mount and ravish me…
Ridiculous. It is caused by someone (usually but not always a man) that sees someone else as an object to be possessed or taken, and used. Rape is the tool, but power and control is the root.
I think that sometimes it is a crime of opportunity, but rapists go out looking for the opportunities - whether they are stranger rapists or date rapists. If you can’t roofie my drink, perhaps the next woman. If my door is locked, try the next house. If I don’t go up to your place with you, maybe the next woman will (and maybe sex will be willing, or maybe your are one of those assholes that think coming up means consent and will just rape her for being a tease and justify it to yourself saying “if she didn’t want it, she wouldn’t have come in”).
But I don’t think that most people, seeing a nice car with the keys in the ignition, would take it. And most people, seeing a woman jogging by herself at 10pm at night, don’t rape her. Even when the opportunity presents itself. Even if its a really nice car or a really hot woman.
But here is where the analogy really breaks down. People aren’t saying “don’t leave your keys in the ignition” to women. They are saying “don’t drive your car to the grocery store, leave it parked in a secure garage. Never give the key to a service guy who might copy it. In fact, don’t get a nice car at all, its just a temptation for it to be stolen - if you need to drive at all, buy a used Yaris, no one wants to steal a Yaris. but consider not owning a car and just having a trusted friend drive you everywhere.”
Thank you.
I have to say that it’s not only women who are raped who get blamed. When my car was broken into and a suitcase stolen, the New Yorkers all blamed me for leaving a car full of stuff in sight. (And everyone other than the New Yorkers blamed the guy who broke into my car, not me.)
I’m not sure what we learn from this. Maybe it’s “normal” to blame victims that we think of as more vulnerable than ourselves?
I think it gives us a (false) sense of confidence that it can’t be us, because we would never have done , even when is irrelevant, or there are other things we do that are as risky.
What we can learn from this is that there are different perspectives on crime, maybe life. The New Yorkers’ perspective on what happened is that crime is a prevalent natural hazard, with standard practices to guard against it that should be exercised. A percentage of the population are criminals, and you modify your behavior to allow for that.
“It’s an invitation to steal.” My father said this to me 1,000 times. If you have ten cars with laptops in them, and one is sitting propped up on the front seat, IF there’s a thief around, you already know which laptop is stolen. Same reason why we ask the neighbors to take in the paper and mail for us while we’re away. So it doesn’t appear that there’s an undefended home with valuable items inside for the possible thief to take advantage.
Right, but me taking a hit to my professional reputation and career prospects by never working so late that I have to walk to my car in the dark is NOT comparable to a person feeling like they should shove a laptop under a seat.