Too late for edit, but even if the number of incidents are the same for both genders, it may not necessarily mean that the risk is the same. If 10 men and women are assaulted walking down the street, we would need to know how how many men and women total were in that situation. If 100 men and 100 women were on the street, then their risk is the same. But if there are 100 men and 50 women who walk on the street, then the risk for a woman is double that of a man.
You probably should have let it go about 2 days ago.
Actually, filmore, you made the claim. Where, not for the first time, are your cites?
We’ve drifted into talking about assault, but my original gym comment was made in a different thread talking about sexual assault on women. Even if overall assault risk is the same for the genders, the risk of sexual assault is not the same for the genders. From this report, “91% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are female, and 9% are male”. From that, I’m assuming that means the risk of sexual assault in a parking lot is 9x higher for a woman than a man.
I’ve taught all the young women at the store my “Look at me and you are dead meat” stare. If I see or hear anything strange, I stop and give it a direct stare while raising my left hand in a fist. It’s really my “you fuck with me and you are dead meat” stare.
I’ve read several religious based books that caution women not to wear revealing clothing or send out “provocative signals” to decrease their chances of being sexually assaulted. Yeah, right.
Even assuming risk is evenly distributed in all contexts, you still don’t know the absolute risk–just that one is higher.
It could be that the risk for men is 1 in 20 and the risk for women is 9 in 20.
Or it could be the risk for men is 1 in 200 and the risk for women is 9 in 200
Or it could be the risk for men is 1 in 2 million and the risk for women is 9 in 2 million.
You’re deciding that WHATEVER the absolute risk, precautions are appropriate for women and not needed for men. You’re willing to significantly curtail my freedoms and expand yours based on your “personal experience” . You put the line between “men” and “women”, even though in the second scenario, men are at higher risk than women in the third scenario.
And this is the exact same argument for telling me not to go out after dark, not to work late, not to travel alone, not to be alone with male co-workers. Those things are also somewhat more risky for a woman–undeniably. Should I refrain from them?
Just fyi, the judge in the case has surfaced again.
He has a new job as a high school tennis coach.
Well thank god that’s a job where he’ll never have to make decisions about potential sexual assa-
Dammit.
You’re the one saying that it’s far riskier for women to not be aware of their surroundings because women are at far more risk of assault than men are.
Men who are physically assaulted can be seriously injured or even killed. As the risk overall of being assaulted is the same, why are you specifically saying that it’s far riskier for women than for men to look at their phones instead of continuously looking around at their surroundings?
My original statement was in a thread about sexual assault, which does not have equal stats for gender. Somehow we drifted into talking about assault in general. If a person wants to reduce their risk of assault, one way is to be more aware of their surroundings. That can be anywhere from a parking lot, bar, restaurant, whatever.
I don’t know if you should refrain and I’m not telling you to refrain. That’s up to you to decide based on risk. What if it was something like your kid wanting to go backpacking in a foreign country? Would you consider the different risk levels in the different countries and want to have discussions about ways to be safe? I’m sure I’ve seen threads which are like “I’m visiting country X. What should I know about it?” and the responses often have things like what parts of the country are safe, whether to go out at night, potentially troublesome conversation topics, etc. There are some countries which are extremely dangerous, but that risk can be mitigated by things like going with a tour company instead of going solo. So in situations like those, I see the change in behavior and action as proportional to the risk. The riskier the country, the more precautions are needed. I guess I see sexual assault situations the same way. The higher the risk, the greater the precautions.
I know these discussions can get pretty heated, but I actually feel like this discussion has been productive for me in understanding the situation. But I also realize that this topic is going to be contentious and confrontational no matter what. I’d like to keep the discussion going, but I’m fine with letting it drop. From this point on, I’ll only post replies to posts which both quote me and have a question. If you just quote me and make a statement, I won’t reply to it. And I won’t quote other posts or make standalone posts in this thread either.
Sure, and that is okay advice for the rapist lurking in the dark alley waiting to yank you into the bushes - but ** most rapes are not stranger rapes.** Most rapes are the guy friend you have known for years and are up playing video games with, or the date that you carefully screened for the first few dates, but has earned your trust, or the co-worker that offered you a ride home rather than wait at night for the bus in the dark.
How many times have you had to alter your behaviour around friends and co-workers because you were worried they may decide to pin you down and jam their penis inside you?
Probably not too many.
I have had one assault by a stranger, and I was wearing my [sarcasm] super-sexy military uniform [/sarcasm]which clearly drove him wild (nope, I could have been anyone), and have had to laugh off the thousands of times that a friend or co-worker grabbed my breasts, or stuck his tongue down my throat. My other sexual assaults were all friends or people that were in positions of trust - no one warned me that playing hide and seek at my best friend’s house would result in her uncle pinning me to a bed, for example.
Yeah, after a certain point, I started to think maybe it was me - not realizing that trauma changes your brain, and how you perceive threat, so you need to re-learn some of that spidey-sense that can pre-warn you. But hyper-vigilance also doesn’t work, because I want to lead a life.
“Rape prevention” tips that try to teach the females not to be so damn rapeable are next to useless. Instead, let’s focus on teaching respecting consent, and not objectifying and for the love of all that is holy, stop raping people. Nothing is owed to you, you are not entitled to anything.
Full stop.
When you judge a woman for walking in a parking lot with earbuds in, even though you have no idea what her actual risks are, that’s telling her to refrain from a normal part of life because you have decided, with no evidence, that she’s taking a foolish risk.
There’s nothing wrong with researching what is safe in a foreign country. There’s nothing wrong with researching what is safe in your own community.
What’s not okay is deciding, based on instinct, or common sense, or whatever, that women should refrain from normal, everyday activities because of danger.
What’s not okay is normalizing the idea that society is a place where women are not safe to go about the activities of everyday life but men are.
Do you recognize that the vast majority of "rape-prevention"does not result significant increase in safety?
Do you recognize that the vast majority of “rape-prevention” advice puts a heavy burden on a woman’s life and limits her personal and professional opportunities in a substantial way?
If there’s anything good that can be said about it, it’s that this has ensured that the entire world knows what a piece of crap he is. Had he received a just sentence, only people locally would know, and that’s only if his name was publicized.
Yeah, I’d like to know where this PoS rapist is now. What college took him on as a student? He’s a registered sex offender now, at least – Did the other students/faculty at that school get notified of this?
No. I find that surprising.
Yes, I realize that. I don’t know what to do about that. The risk is so much greater for women at this time.
I have daughters. When we sent them to college, my wife and I had “the talk” with them about being safe and my wife told them basically all the typical stuff about watching their drinks, not walking in dark areas, being cautious when alone with a boy, etc. I can’t imagine not discussing these things with them before they left. What would you have recommended we do in that situation?
Where? You seem to think that literally everywhere a woman goes is more dangerous for her than the most dangerous places in America are for a man. And woman after woman after woman has said that their experience with assault were NOT doing these things that “common sense” says are too dangerous.
I would not tell a daughter not to walk after dark. I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming that the boy she knows who offers to walk her home is a far greater risk to her safety than anyone skulking in the shadows. Assaults and muggings are rare on campuses. Sexual assault is overwhelmingly from someone the victim already knows.
I would not tell a daughter to “be cautious when alone with a boy”. I don’t even know what that means, unless I am going to tell her to just never be alone with a boy–and that doesn’t seem emotionally healthy. It’s impossible to tell which of your friends and friends-of-friends are rapists and which ones are potentially the father of my grandchildren. I don’t want her too scared to date, and I don’t think anything short of literally never being alone with any boy, ever, will make her safer. If I tell her to “be cautious”, she’s not any safer, but she knows now that if anything does happen, she wasn’t “safe enough”.
I don’t know what to think of the spiked drink issue. Because it’s self-reported and hard to be sure what’s really happening, I have no idea what the actual risks are. But I suppose a conversation about not taking drinks from strangers would be appropriate.
I would tell her not to drink more than 3-4 drinks when she’s out, over the course of the evening. I would also tell a boy that, but I might emphasize it more with a girl. Drinking to the point where you can’t react to what’s going on around you is never safe.
Are your daughters now adults? If one of them said she was working late, would you tell her not to do that, if the parking lot will be dark? If one had to travel alone on business, would you tell her she should tell her boss that’s not safe for her and someone else should go? If one of them was jogging in her sleepy suburb after dark, would you buy her a gym membership because it didn’t feel safe to you? If one of them was moving and wanted to drive herself 6 or 8 hours away, would you insist she take someone with her?
He no longer has a job as a high school tennis coach.