Well said. I think that sums it up pretty nicely. Often, people ask for prayers because they don’t know what else to do in an upsetting situation. Cancer is a very frightening thing and most people don’t know what to do when it strikes someone they care about. All they really want is some kindness and reassurance.
Many people will choose to believe in whatever gives them comfort. I don’t think this is at all bad, and I think it makes perfect sense that people will want to believe in whatever they have to believe in to function and enjoy life, rather than being totally logical yet miserable.
I tend to think that, if you look at things completely objectively, it is hard to escape the conclusion that existence as a whole is futile. I tend to think that atheists who try to tell themselves that life has meaning because of the meaning we give it ourselves, or that it doesn’t matter that there is no immortality because we live on in our accomplishments and children, are fooling themselves just as much as the blind, impoverished elderly black man who thinks that God is watching out for him and will reward him for all the injustice he suffered on earth when he gets to heaven.
Most people find it more pleasant to function in the hope that there is purpose, justice, and meaning to life. If you talk too much about finding it all pointless then you may very well be right, but everyone will be sadder for it and you will probably wind up on anti-depressants…so in the end, I prefer to let people believe whatever they find comforting and enjoyable. In a world where nothing really matters, trying to make the best of things is more important than being right.
Many Christians also believe that God tries them and tests them. Earth is not supposed to be heaven, it isn’t supposed to be free of the trials and tribulations of life. And one cannot know the mind of God, when he will reward you for your faith, or when he will send you another trial.
I’m not Christian, but most of us human beings are not completely rational creatures. And bashing someone in time of distress because they aren’t completely rational seems rather mean to me. Even if you are merely bashing them behind their back anonymously on an internet board. If I were Brandon’s friend and knew that this was how he felt, and he felt so strongly about it that he needed to mock me behind my back, he’d be doing me a favor unfriending me.
It’s not logical that God would have to test people. He already knows the results.
And we are not all rational people. Well, you are - most of the rest of us are human and sometimes justify things in irrational manners.
(I don’t believe God tests people either, however I do believe people are not completely rational and have reached a faith based acceptance that they never will be.)
This is one of many reasons why I don’t believe in a god that’s omni-anything.
But the person being tested does not.
You know, it bothers me a little bit when I see people say stuff like this (and this is far from the first time I’ve seen this sentiment expressed on this MB). Because you know that the Christian Old Testament = the Jewish Bible, right? It’s hard to read this as anything but a condemnation of Judaism.
FWIW, I’m an atheist Jew. I don’t believe in it either. But I also don’t think Judaism is inherently evil, and I don’t find (most) religious Jews to particularly intolerant or judgmental.
Yes, you totally should! You’d make a killing! (well, if you charged for it, which rarely happens. You’d be popular though.)
You don’t know about Christianity. The things that you’ve said about Christian belief in this thread are untrue. That’s all there is to it. If the sky is blue, then the sky would still be blue even if you claimed that you’d spent six years in a private school learning that the sky was orange. If you really spent six years learning about Christianity and still can’t get anything right, you might want to refrain from going around bragging about it.
So you’re proof that all Christians are stupid is … that you say so.
Brandon, you need to try harder. A lot harder.
Would you care to provide a cite for this statement?
I have already linked to two books containing the medical evidence for the case of Rita Klaus. Do you doubt that the evidence is accurate? If so, on what grounds are you claiming to know more about that case than the doctors who actually treated her? In any case, the Klaus case is far from unique. Prayer worked for Audrey Toguchi. It worked for Anna Santaniello. It worked for many other people. As for your claim that ‘according to my logic God must hate blah blah blah’, I’ve already explained why that’s wrong, but you apparently missed it the first time so I’ll repeat. When we receive a gift, it’s not evidence that the gift-giver hates people who didn’t receive the gift. Rather, it’s evidence that the gift-giver loves the receiver.
Look. You’re running into a very simple problem here. You believe that you’re vastly more intelligent than almost everyone else, and that therefore once you’ve shared your amazing wisdom, everybody is going to be bowled over by it. Well, there’s nothing to be ashamed of; it’s a problem that’s common enough among your age group. But it’s a pretty simple problem. You aren’t actually vastly more intelligent than almost everyone else. In fact, you’re repeating arguments that most people dismissed as being nonsensical a long time ago, which is why exactly nobody is bowled over by your great knowledge.
Oh, is that so? North Korea is ruled by an atheist dictator who forbids all practice of religion. North Korea does not allow gay marriage. China has been ruled by the rigidly atheist Communist Party for 60 years and religion has been outlawed (a law relaxed slightly a few months ago). China does not allow gay marriage. Cuba has been under Marxist control for 50 years and Cuba does not allow gay marriage. So if atheists never oppose gay marriage, how exactly do you explain these facts?
Interesting. The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. based his opposition to segregation on the word of God. Did you hate it when his beliefs were put into law?
ITR Champion, it might be helpful if you could provide a cite that is not from books that are pushing the idea that miracles are real. Perhaps some sort of news report, or medical journal article, or something.
As for your prayer philosophy:
If God answers my prayer, it is proof that he loves me. Therefore, if God does not answer my prayer, it is proof that he does not love me. Charming.
Attention Doper Facebook Users: we don’t want to hear about your stupid Facebook friends any more than you do.
Nearly as much as I hated that segregation was instituted in the first place based on “the word of God”.
You called this person your friend, but as soon as he expresses a belief that you don’t hold, you came running to your other internet buddies and start talking about how stupid he is. It’s true, you didn’t say that you had confronted him or told him “be gone.” I inferred that you didn’t want to be friends with him anymore, because you weren’t treating him like a friend.
I further inferred that the cause of your actions was your facebook friends’ beliefs - in other words, once religious beliefs were expressed, you stopped acting like a friend. That, to me, speaks of a conditional friendship.
But perhaps I inferred a bit too much, and if so, I’m sorry. I do, however, hold to my opinion that you come off as dickish in the OP. Tragic illness should not be a tool for lording your intellectual superiority over your friends.
No, you just go behind his back and mock him. Yeah, that’s not being a “real dick.” :rolleyes:
I’ve always been a fan of “if you have something to say about me, say it to my face. Don’t go running to your little buddies and trash me, then act like everything is all sunshine and puppies.”
My cousin posted that she had joined a Glenn Beck fan group. I loathe Glenn Beck. But she’s my cousin and I love her. I asked her, “Eeew, Glenn BECK?” Then I just teased her about it. But we’ve been close since we were kids, so I’m not going to go and call her names where she can’t see it, then say I’m not a jerk, since she doesn’t KNOW I’m making fun of her. (And for the record, I don’t think her liking Glenn Beck makes her a jerk or delusional, either.)
And no, he shouldn’t have to keep his beliefs private, just because you say so. It’s his Facebook. Don’t like it? Unfriend him or suck it up. Either way, get the fuck over it. It’s freaking FACEBOOK. :rolleyes:
He wasn’t just expressing beliefs. He was asking for prayer. That’s a little bit different.
I don’t see how it’s any worse.
Your point is?
That deserves ridicule from a friend behind his back? Like hell it does. I’ve asked for peoples’ good thoughts and wishes.
[sub]Before someone points it out, I’m not saying I don’t gossip, OR that gossip is always something evil. However, if you’re going to claim to be a good friend or what was in this case, “not a real dick” don’t mock your friends for what they believe, and then pretend all is rosy. Don’t be two-faced. I’ve never pretended not to be a bitch in some instances.[/sub]
And that makes Brandon obligated to give it? Forces him into rejecting his atheism and get baptized? I’m not sure what the problem is.
Do you have this issue when someone applies for a job and says “Wish me luck?”
“If A then B” implies “If ~A then ~B”? Talking of philosophy, you have some revision to do. :dubious: