I was reminded by this thread in the pit of an arguement I had a few months back with a couple of dopers.
I mentioned casually that I was praying for one of them as she was going through some hard times.
I was quickly told that it was rude and inappropriate for me to pray for someone if they didn’t want me to and in fact, asked to STOP praying for them because they didn’t want it.
I will admit I was a bit hurt. I was in no way trying to preach or witness or convert them, it was just a way for me to say I cared about them and wanted them to be well (I forget the exact circumstances).
So I guess the question and debate is…is it rude and/or inappropriate for me to pray for people who don’t believe in my God?
Hmm, a rare sighting of Pit to GD thread migration, rather than the other way round.
Re: the OP, I personally wouldn’t be offended, but I don’t really think prayer has any particular purpose other than to comfort the person doing the praying, and have never seen evidence of any apparent results from the practice.
Also, could someone remind me of any Biblical passage that explicitly states that God will alter a given person’s health or economic situation based on the condition that they are prayed for by a third party? If this is the case, are there any guidelines as to how many prayers or persons praying actually achieve the desired effect?
Of course, when I pray for someone’s health…it’s not that God will magically cure them. I pray for the wisdom and strength of Doctors, for a bit of peace and clear mindedness for the patient, the doctors and everyone’s family.
OK. The point of this thread is not ‘whether prayer works’. The issue is…if you are a non-believer and I told you I was praying for you…would you be offended? And is it rude for me to do so?
In my case, I believe, but people of different faiths have told me they pray for me. I accept their prayers, it is their way of saying they care for me.
I suspect I came off like a bit of a smartass in my previous post, but I’ll take my lumps and let the question stand. The above still seems to indicate that prayer is some sort of petition to a deity to intervene in events.
A more christian person can correct me but didn’t Jesus admonish making a show of prayer? I would certainly think announcing on a message board would qualify. If you hope the best for someone why don’t you just say that? What comfort to the person who is a non-believer in prayer comes from the fact that you are praying ?
Personally I am not offended when someone says they are praying for me. I would however note it as a sign of social ignorance, ie the assumption that some activity that gives you comfort will somehow translate into comfort for another. It’s similar to someone saying “I will remember you in my bowling” or “I will hope for your recovery in my rock climbing”. (or more pointedly “I’ll hold a seance for your guidance tonight”) I try to just think of it as sending me positive vibes(and roll my eyes in my head)
Well, I wasn’t announcing to the world that I was praying for this woman…I told her that I was. She was going through a hard time, and I said “I’ll keep you in my prayers.”
Her response was “I’d rather you didn’t, since I don’t believe in God, and it’s presumptuous of you to think I want your prayers.”
It could certainly be unapropriate to say so. If say, a member of my family died, and you came and told me “I’m going to pray for you/him”, I would certainly be pissed off. It’s certainly not rational but I would have the strong feeling that you really don’t get it.
I’m not sure how to explain that, but it would be somehow like telling me “don’t worry my astrologer told me that everything will be fine and well for you” or “sure, your brother died, but look, it’s the spring and the birds are singing in the trees”. In other words, something totally irrelevant and which isn’t going to be helpful in any way. I would also have the feeling that you’re somehow minimizing the importance of the loss (by implying that there’s a god, immortal souls, etc…hence that it’s not as tragic as it seems).
Finally, since I’ve a dent against religion, making references to something I don’t like at the first place when I’m already in a poor emotionnal state won’t be well received, like in “can you keep religion out of my face AT LEAST when I’m mourning?”. In the worst case, someone could have the feeling that you’re trying to take advantage of the mourning to prozelytize.
Not everybody will react like me, but a cautious approach, when you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t believe in diffulcult circumstances should be to avoid references to religion. If you want to say that you care about the person, just say so. Probably in your religious community, people will immediatly understand I’ll pray for you= I care for you, but it won’t be obvious for a non-believer. He is likely to feel that you mostly care for your religion, not for him, since the first idea which crossed your mind was related to your god, and is meaningless for him. “I’m going to pray for you”, “I’m going to rowboat for you” “huh? does he really believe he’s helpful or supportive?” Once again, if you care for someone, just say so.
If she TRULY didn’t believe in god, it seems to me she wouldn’t care either way. Sounds like she’s got some denial issues; is she by chance a recovering Catholic?
For myself, I’m not offended, but such a statement WOULD lower the pray-er a notch or two in my estimation. I too would roll my eyes in my head (as opposed to what, the eyes in my elbows?).
It’s an interesting question- If someone says “I’m praying for you”, I assume it means that they are kind of sending out postitive vibes to me to get through a tough time or some such. What I HATE is people who tell me they’ll pray for my soul because I don’t believe in their God or that they’ll pray for me to find God. That’s what I find offensive.
The thing is, people who believe in the efficacy of prayer don’t regard it as something that only comforts them. Their prayer is not the same thing to them as their bowling at all. And really, do you find their taking time for directed thoughts for your specific good to be equivalent to them amusing themselves? That’s a bit unfair, though I applaud the kindness of your tolerance for what is done with goodwill rather than intent to offend, even if you don’t find it objectively meaningful. That said, I agree that expressing goodwill towards another as simply goodwill is more appropriate if one doesn’t know whether the other believes in prayer.
I found “I’ll hold a seance for your guidance” a very interesting thought tweaker, though. It may help the devout who wish to pray for friends to understand their feeling offended. If someone were to offer to hold a seance for a dedicated Christian, that Christian might well be horrified. It is easy to have a kindly tolerance for an activity you consider neutral, if benignly meant. It is tougher to have tolerance for an activity directed on your behalf that you find opprobrious in and of itself. Perhaps that’s the difference.
To me it’s no more than saying, “I’ll be thinking of you”, “Good luck”, “Get well soon!” It’s just a way of saying, hey, I just want you to know I care.
I usually say, “I’ll keep you in my prayers,” or “I’ll send good thoughts your way.” It’s just an expression, and I think people who take offense like that should just chill. Seriously.
Okay, I’ve never actually had anyone say that to me, but that would be just really rude. I’d be really pissed off.
But if I was going through a hard time (oh wait! I am!) and someone told me they were praying for things to improve for me, I’d be touched that they were thinking of me. I don’t know that prayer really does anything for anyone over than the pray-er, but I think it would cheer me up considerably to know that someone cared enough about me to talk to god about improving the crappiness that is my life.
I have to say I would be offended if that person knew I wasn’t Christian. How offended would depend on how much emotional stress I was under at the time. When I was in ICU recovering from my first (and very nearly successful) suicide attempt, the nurse put one of those crocheted crosses on my bedtable. Definitely bad timing–as she found out when I knocked it to the floor. I had no reason to live, and the symbol of a non-existent God didn’t give me one.
The “seance” comparison is a good one. Would you be offended if I said I’d sacrifice a chicken for you, or read the Tarot for you, or held a ritual for you, or worked a spell for you?