Atheists and the prayers of others

Great Debates
1

In another thread, which shall remain uncited, and nameless, I had a brief exchange with a poster who may wish to continue to be the same, but need not if it suits him. (Pretty vague, huh?) I just want to elicit the discussion which was a hijack there, into its own thread. The original participant is certainly welcome to answer, but it is the general case that I would like to explore.

Now suppose you are intellectually a hard atheist. You believe that there is no god. You have this belief because of your own thorough examination of reality, and logic, and certainly not because of any emotional bias, or prejudice. It’s simple, it’s fact based, and you believe it to be true. There simply is not, and reasonably could not be a god.

Now further suppose that there are three of us in the exchange, me, you, and a third party known only as the sufferer. We know nothing of the sufferer other than he is reasonably to be believed to be truthful, and not engaged in any particular deception with respect to himself, us, or God. The sufferer has told us of his suffering, and his emotional response to its cause. Each of us has known, and interacted with the sufferer, and consider him not to be a stranger.

Ok, so, several initiating possibilities exist, and the end result might vary depending on them. Either the sufferer himself asks for our prayers, or, I offer my own prayers for him. Socially, it’s your conversational turn. Do you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel that the exchange thus far has unreasonably pushed my or our religious beliefs on to you? Does it matter who we suggested or stated we would pray to? Will your reply specifically mention prayer at all?

After the discussion gets rolling (if it does) we can get into alternate scenarios, but the one here really is the door through which I would like to enter the debate. Theists will please wait patiently for a few posts if that is possible, to give atheists a fair chance to provide answers.

Tris

2

I find it roughly on par to having the Mormons baptize your deceased grandfather.
I’m aware it’s only an ‘offer to the spirit to join the true faith’, but I still find it a bit more than rude.

Especially if the prayers are loud and in front of you, with many references to how you are going to burn in hell.

If they’re not, then still, being told ‘I will pray for you’ can be interpreted roughly with as much innuendo and meaning as ‘bless your heart.’

This specific case, I would bow out, and say that I prefer to keep my prayers behind closed doors, between myself and the Lord, as it says in the Bible. I would undoubtedly feel uncomfortable.

If pressed, I might ask for a live chicken.

(My exact degree of theism/athiesm/agnosticism varies, but the darn charismatic christian at work keeps telling me I’m the antichrist and talking about how everything is a sign of the world ending. It wears on one.)

3

I am an atheist (weak/soft philosophically, but pretty strong/hard emotionally)

Unless there was an expectation that I participate, I would not be offended. My family and my in-laws are all staunch evangelicals, if I was offended every time somebody prayed, or even told me they were praying for me I would never get anything done.

There is a strong level of condescension in telling a known atheist that you will be praying for them, and when it’s not my Mom… then I get annoyed. As would a theist if I would constantly tell them that they are wrong and that I will apply all powers of reason to make them lose their faith.

4

Probably not. I’ve been in situations similar to this, and it depends on the individuals. As long as it’s just ‘Ill be thinking of you’ and not ‘god will heal your pain, put all your faith in him and him alone’, both of which I’ve seen, then I don’t care.

No.

Well, it might be odd to hear someone offering to pray to satan on their behalf.

No. I would be much more likely to offer actual aid, even if only in the form visits.

5

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I think the scenario in the OP is, “I’m going to pray for our mutual friend here”, or “Why, yes, Suffering Sally, I will pray for you, since you asked. What do you think, Atheist Bob?” not “I will pray for you, Atheist Bob.”

I’m also interested in some atheist answers, as I’m always a little uncomfortable offering prayers and even more uncomfortable offering magickal assistance in mixed company. I’ll generally do so only if the person needing help is obviously open to such things - asking outright being the best indication, but also previous discussion about prayer. But I do worry that I’ll be attacked or simply overwhelmed with eyerollies from atheist bystanders.

6

Hard atheist. I received advice in that aforementioned thread to refrain from offering prayer as an unbeliever. I will not take that advice. Anyone who asks for a prayer is suffering and should not be blindsided into a debate about religion. And there is no excuse for disparaging or insulting someone who offers prayers. If someone needs comfort and all I have to offer are words, then I will make my best and sincere effort to offer well wishes.

The mention of prayer would not make me uncomfortable in the least. I would gladly offer kind and hopeful words to anyone who asks for them, and if I am in no position to offer actual physical assistance to the sufferer, I will sincerely express my profound hope that he find relief from his suffering.
Let me state that twice: I would rather take action and attempt to help, but if I am barred from taking action, my sincere prayers will have to suffice. It matters not to me whom I address the prayers to. If I am in the presence of a Christian in America and I say aloud “God, please relieve this man’s suffering” it will be accepted that I am addressing the white bearded, white robed figure who fathered the Christ child. If I offer a prayer in India, I may be addressing Brahman.

Prayer for the suffering is also a cultural device; and prayer is not exclusive to Christianity. I don’t show the bottom of my feet in Thailand. I don’t touch someone’s head in China. And I don’t refuse to participate in prayer when in the company of Christians.

7

Yes, I feel uncomfortable. It annoys me and I lose a little bit of respect for anyone that would ask such a thing. Without getting into the question of what kind of deity would wait for the prayers of an unbeliever before healing a believer, the request or suggestion itself is unreasonable and most especially if the person bringing it up is aware of my beliefs (or lack thereof).
My reply would probably be :dubious: and “mmm-hm” with an immediate subject change.

8

If someone tells me they will pray for me it makes me uncomfortable, but I just say “thank you” and change the subject.

What I really hate is when someone asks me to pray for them.

9

Does the sufferer believe in a higher power or the power of prayer? What do you know about the sufferer?

Saying “I will pray for you” is presumptuous.
Saying “would you like me to pray for you?” is fine.

As the atheist on the sidelines, I personally don’t care either way, though I think a more useful and profitable line of approach would be “what can I do to help you?” instead of offering what you think is the best solution. Let the sufferer decide.

10

If Prayerful Pete offers to pray for Suffering Sally, and I am invited to join him, I will say, “I’m not big on prayer, but I offer my sincere best wishes.” (Or something like that.)

If Suffering Sally asks her to pray for her, I might say the same, or I might say, “Okey dokey.”

If either knows I am in a pickle and they offer to pray for me, I’d just thank them.

If they are just trying to be smug assholes who want to get under my skin by offering to pray for me, then their punishment is their inability to grasp even the basics of their vaunted religion. That, perversely enough, delights me.

11

That’s why I had two parts to it. I get told that people are going to pray for my soul far more often than I am asked to pray for someone.

“For you, Sally, of course.” is nothing less than meaningless social lubricant. A white lie. It can be more than that, if Bob believes, but even if he doesn’t, it offers some measure of the support she wants. Going all raging ‘there is no god, and Mohinder is his prophet’ is just rude in front of someone who is, we assume, terrified. If you’re known as an atheist, then ‘You’ll always be in my thoughts’ is good enough to someone who wants to hear what they want to hear. There’s lots of ways to agree noncommittally.

It really all depends on who asks, and how they say it. “And now, we will all pray for Sally’s health. Get down on your knees and PRAISE the Lord!” is a bit annoying. Especially at work.

12

I forgot to answer part of the question. What would I, as person C in the conversation, say? It would probably be something along the lines of “I will keep you in my thoughts.” A question to you, Triskadecamus - if I, as the atheist participating in the conversation, said “I will not pray for you since this will accomplish nothing, but let me know what I can do for you”, would you, as a religious person, feel that I have unreasonably inflicted my beliefs on you?

13

I do feel uncomfortable if people ask me to pray for them or with them. I don’t necessarily assume they are being intentionally rude or insensitive or pushing their beliefs on me, but it does put me in a position of either having to be insincere and fake it (which I can’t do) or trying to find some way to decline which doesn’t sound rude in itself.

In some situations, like when we’re visting my wife’s family and they’re saying grace, I can quietly bow my head and wait for them to be done, but if I were ever asked to lead the prayer, I’d be very uncomfortable.

14

I’m not Tris, but can I play, too?

I would not be offended by the “I will not pray for you”, but I would be hurt by “since this will accomplish nothing.” In my head, I hear the unspoken coda, “And neither will *your *prayers, you idiotic nincompoop.” Intellectually, I can, with some effort, choose to parse it as, “My prayers will accomplish nothing because I don’t believe in the power of my own prayers, but perhaps yours will do some good, even if just psychologically” but emotionally I’d think it an attack on mine. And yes, I’d feel that was “inflicting” your beliefs on me - your belief in the uselessness of prayer, specifically. (Your way, I mean. If you said the whole “My prayers will accomplish nothing because I don’t believe in the power of my own prayers, but perhaps yours will do some good, even if just psychologically” I would respect that and not be offended or feel put upon.)

Either way, I’d feel comfort by the offer of assistance, even if both of us knew I wouldn’t take you up on it. I, too, think that physical help is more useful than prayer or magick, and offer it first, when possible and appropriate.

15

Hard atheist, here. I’d fake an interest and pay lip service, out of politeness to the limit of whenever it starts to feel vaguely creepy, which depends hugely on how well I know these people and how dire the situation is.

16

If prayers are requested of me, I’ll sidestep with something like the “I’ll keep you in my thoughts” phrase that others have mentioned. If pressed, I’d say that I’m not much of one for prayers. Odds are, they’re asking for warm fuzzies and not a discussion of the nature of the universe. I’d feel a bit awkward, as it would call attention to my godless nature, which is not always a popular viewpoint. But I’d do my best to downplay the difference of worldview and emphasize the willingness to provide emotional support.

17

Fair enough. I agree that the more proper response would be “I will not pray for you” without the “since this will accomplish nothing.” Of course, if the person offers “I will pray for God to cure you of this disease” it is more tempting to participate with “I’ll do something more useful”.

18

I think “I will not pray for you” may unintentionally personalize it. My standard answer is “I don’t pray but…[insert some other offer of help or support].” I think that avoids making it sound like you’re singling them out personally for non-prayer.

19

I think the problem with saying “No, i’m afraid I won’t pray for you” without saying “because I don’t think it’ll help” is that it might just make you look like a jerk. If you don’t justify your decision, it makes you seem like you’re just choosing not to pray for them, as an uncaring person. I don’t know whether “…because i’m an athiest” or “…because I don’t share your beliefs” would be acceptable, but I think you should tell them the reason.

I myself am entirely unbothered. If you want to pray for our friend, please, go ahead. And if they ask me, I might just do so myself - although I would tell them i’m an athiest, just in case they believe the prayers of an atheist wouldn’t do any good (or would invite the wrong type of answer).

20

When our daughters were born prematurely (at 24 weeks) we had lots of family and friends that said they were “praying” for us, “praying” for our daughters, and adding us to their “prayer” groups. My wife and I aren’t religious and probably consider ourselves agnostic. My personal view is that prayers are pretty much worthless and pointless.
Usually when people told us they would be praying I met it with an “oh, okay, thanks” and wasn’t insulted. I took it more as a sort of “I hope it turns out good, I’ll be sending positive thoughts your way, you’ll be in my thoughts, good luck, best wishes.”
And for all the praying everyone did our daughters passed away 2 weeks later. It was odd to see all these people who had prayed start to basically make excuses for why the prayers weren’t answered. All of the “god works in mysterious ways, it’s a blessing they were with you for 2 weeks, I guess it was meant to be this way” type B.S. I think it bothered them more than it did me. I was in mourning but at least I knew that things happen, nature takes it’s course, and there wasn’t some deity making a yes or no call with some innocent child’s life. But that was their paradox to deal with, not mine.
Now if someone came to me after the fact and tried to convince me that they didn’t live because of my lack of praying they might be met with a punch to the nose.
The only annoying person we met was a hospital chaplin who asked us just one too many times if we wanted the girls baptised. We said “no thanks” every time. She seemed a little shocked even when we said “no” when we knew the girls were on their way out. I’m sorry, I don’t know if there is an afterlife or not, but if it’s a heaven where they decide if you can come in or not based on whether some person performed a magikal ritual over them before they passed I’d rather they not get in.