If you were being sarcastic, I’d be deeply offended. If you were expressing sympathy through truly held beliefs I’d be comforted, although I don’t take any stock in those practices.
Anyone who feels offended or certainly feels the need to express offence at someone who shares her desire and practice to pray for that person is sorely in need of some education in tolerance and the ability to recognize an offering of human kindness and caring.
Well, I just got finished ranting about Dreamer’s post to the entire “non-believing section of Straight Dope”. You’re situation seems a bit different to me though. You seemed to have done it non chalantly(sp) and on a personal level. There is nothing wrong with that, IMHO. However, again IMHO, Dreamer posted his post so he’d be noticed. I didn’t see much point in it. But, that’s for another time and post!
At church a few months ago, I was told that nobody would object to people praying for them. (If I hear it at church, It Must Be True[sup]TM[/sup]) I decided to go out and test that, making sure to mention in situations where comfort was appropriate that I’d be praying for them. Very quickly I ran into someone who mentioned, in a nutshell, that while good thoughts were appreciated, they would prefer that I not pray for them.
Since then, I’ve taken to mentioning to people that I’ll keep them in my thoughts and prayers; that way, if prayer is rude or unacceptable, it is still noted that I’m thinking of them in a non-praying manner. However, I’d feel uneasy not saying that I was praying for them, so I hope there’s a middle ground somewhere.
Well, I wouldn’t want anyone to harm animals for me. But if you want to say a Tarot for me, or do a spell, or lick toads or WHATEVER, then sure, no problem.
I’ll agree with some of what has been said.
If it was intended simply as an “I wish you well sort of thing.” I’d take it the same as saying “Goodbye” (literally “God be with you”) for example. Especially if it were from someone who didn’t know I wasn’t a Christian. If someone knows me well enough to know I’m not religious, I would prefer them to express their thoughts in a more secular manner, but I wouldn’t actually say anything, or call them out.
If it is intended in the “I’ll pray for your soul, filthy heathen.” type of way, I would be offended, mostly by the condescension and arrogance. It’s basically like saying, “I and my beliefs are better than you and yours, and I think you need to believe what I believe.” I doubt I would say anything, but there would be some serious eye-rolling, and it would probably color my view of that person from that point forward.
If God had the ability to instill “peace and clear-mindedness” in anyone’s mind, then surely God could stop criminals from doing evil. And if God can fortify the doctors’ constitution, then surely it would be no trouble to restore the patient’s physiology.
Yes, I find the concept of intercessory prayer silly, but I’d rather discuss it here, in this forum. A hospital waiting room, for example, is a bad place. When prayers are offered sincerely and thoughtfully, they are not rude. Sometimes they might be mistaken for prayers which are offered spitefully (“You’re going to hell, but I’ll pray for you”).
That’s not true.
No, the pray-er needs an education in tolerance, and the first big lesson they need to learn is that not everyone they encounter is a Christian!
Guin, I actually don’t do any of those things (toad-licking?!). But, still, I see you as a much more tolerant Christian than many I’ve encountered. 
I realize the OP is Christian, but in the general discussion, are we assuming all other pray-ers are, too? Do others only get this offer from Christians? That’s not been my experience.
I’d say that, given the events as presented in this thread, jarbabyj was not being rude, and in fact, it was the person she was trying to comfort (whoever it was) who was being rude. Telling someone “I’ll pray for you,” is an expression of compassion and caring, not an attempt to force their religion on you. Snapping back like that was incredibly rude. To whoever that was, jarbabyj was offering to include you in something that is very important to her, if not to you. Even if you think it’s a load of horse pucky, at least respect her beliefs enough not to spit in her face when she’s trying to be nice to you.
Of course, there is context to this. If I’m going into surgery, and someone says, “I’ll pray for you,” then I’d be grateful. (Unless it’s the surgeon who says it, in which case I want a more confident surgeon.) If I’m having a hard time at work, and am worried I might get fired, I’d appreciate the prayers. If someone is praying for me to change something that I don’t want changed, however, then I have a problem, because then you’re not respecting my right to make my own choices in life. It’s judgemental, and it’s insulting. This includes praying that I’ll find Jesus, which means that dreamer’s thread, while well-intentioned, was rude.
Someone here has (or had) the sig line, “if atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color.” Taking offense at a prayer offered in kindness belies this statement. I just don’t get this hostility toward benign religious expression.
Go ahead – pray for me, do a seance for me, or, hell, kill a chicken for me! Colonel Sanders did that just a couple of weeks ago, and I felt a lot less peckish afterward.
Squish, how the heck does person A praying for person B make person A intolerant? Granted, person A might want to realize that not everyone wants to be prayed for, and you might argue that person A is therefore ignorant, but where on earth does tolerance come into play, barring person A saying that the reason he or she is praying is to save evil nasty heathen atheist B’ soul?
I am in a different position than many Christians on this one.
I really do think that it is a bad idea to tell people about your prayers. It takes your prayers out of your heart, and into the market place. That may not be a matter of pride or self righteousness, but it does you a disservice, and makes your prayer something other than a heart opened to the Lord alone.
But, I know a lot of people, of Christian, and other faiths who do tell each other that they will pray for their benefit, or healing, or for strength in adversity. I know that they do not mean insult to each other, over differences in faith. (Well most of them, anyway.) I have found that most who do not share the faith of the one offering to pray, are not insulted, or angered. It seems to me to be said, and accepted in most cases as an expression of human concern.
I do know some who pray only for the spiritual enlightenment of others, rather than their comfort. They say, and often loudly, that this is because that is the greatest need and any other prayer would be vain. However much they might think that is so, I find it proud, and arrogant to speak of it to anyone, and especially so to anyone in pain.
I would council those of faith to offer real aid, and human comfort, and love with words spoken to those in need, or to those suffering in the world. Offer prayer to the Lord in you room, from your heart, to His. While we must always be His servants, our service is not all done by proclaiming our faith with words.
Tris
The quote from the Bible is:
Matthew 6:5-6 (New English Bible Verision)
[Jesus said]
I’m afraid I used this when I spoke rather sharply to dreamer in the other thread about the presumptuousness of telling people “I’ll pray for you.” I have seen people use that phrase as an attack, with the subtext “because you’re different, you’re wrong, you’re evil” or “because I don’t like you.” I’ll even admit to having prayed for one or two people with the latter subtext because I’ve had to continue to deal with them. For what it’s worth, on those occasions, I prayed that God would change at least one of us, and there was no way I was going to tell the person about that prayer.
Personally, I have no problem with people who know me and who know my situation praying for me and telling me so. If it comes from a complete or near stranger, however, it can be off-putting. As I mentioned in the other thread, telling someone “I’ll pray for you” tends to put you in a superior position, IMHO. I can think of one situation when I did tell someone I’d do so, and then it was a rather shamefaced confession because I couldn’t do anything else. As it happened, something happened shortly afterward where I was able to do something for the couple in question, but that’s a long and inappropriate story.
jarbabyj, I don’t think you were out of line when you said you’d keep her in her prayers. Her response was hurtful and rude, but neither of us know her circumstances. As someone who got beat up a lot by members in good standing of church youth groups, I don’t put a lot of stock in public faith, and I claim to be some sort of Christian.
Anyway, that’s my two cents, on a morning where I will be off to pray in public, but, since that would be in an Episcopal church, in that context I’d say it’s appropriate.
CJ
By the way, dreamer, if you didn’t post your post so you’d be noticed, why did you post it?
CJ
But can you really be sure of that? Do you know yourself so well that you clearly know all your motives and drives? I sure don’t know myself that well. And the process of learning is slow.
If one person tells me I’m being a self-absorbed twit, I can afford to ignore it. If two tell me, I’d better look at the issue. If 3 people I really trust and respect tell me that, I know that despite my denials to the contrary, there’s probably too much truth in what they say.
Cite, please?
Well, I do!
QtM, MD
That’s an interesting point of view.
Tell me, would you respect this person’s choices in life? Including this person’s choice to pray for other people to “change something that [they] don’t want changed”?
Really? Sounds to me like your’re saying that such a person should change his ways. Is that your judgment?
Xians can pray for other people all they like, in the privacy of their own minds, which, BTW, is what Jesus recommended. But thwn Xians use it as a tool of harassment is whne they need to be told to cease and desist. There is no need for a Christian to go about telling people that they are being prayed for to tuern from their ingfidel ways. That’s just rude, and disobedient from Jesus’s rexpress condemnation of praying to be seen by others.
But most fundie Christians, IMO, honor Jesus by their words and slam mud in His name by their acts.