Yep, that’s the argument alright. The one that SJWs keep promoting as if it were true. “Everyone’s racist”. (Although I do acknowledge your attempt to hedge it with the modifier ‘sometimes’.)
But at the same time…
Does not compute.
If there’s no objective judge for racism, how do you know who’s a racist? Oh, right, “everyone”.
There’s no objective judge for many things (morality, goodness, evilness, beauty, courage, etc.), and yet society still functions and people still give their opinions and have beliefs about those things.
Just returning the favor!
I disagree. You’re the one who thinks that it’s possible for all people to be “mistakenly” racist on occasion. “Trivial”, “minor league” racism that just ooopsie slips out. And identifying that trivial, minor, admittedly asshole-ish behavior as specifically “racist” conflates it with actual racism. Having reasonable belief that some dude couldn’t possibly afford a real 5K diamond earring is not racist, despite the fact that the dude was black.
Fair point. +1 iiandyiiii
Counterpoint: not everyone is moral, good, evil, beautiful, courageous, or racist. Sometimes not even a little bit. Some people not at all. Not even mistakenly.
I said it’s possible for anyone to, by mistake, say or do something racist. This doesn’t always mean that they, as a person, are racist, IMO – I try not to label people (as opposed to words or actions) as racist unless I have knowledge about their motives. I think many or even most of the relatively mundane acts of racism that so many folks are faced with every day are due to ignorance, thoughtlessness, or carelessness rather than malice and hatred. This doesn’t excuse them at all – it just reinforces the need, IMO, to work to educate everyone on how hurtful and harmful these sorts of things can be.
I agree. I just think it’s helpful, and wise, for folks to recognize that they are capable of making mistakes, being careless, being thoughtless, etc. If someone is convinced they can never make a certain type of mistake, then they might cease to be watchful in trying to avoid doing so.
By the way, your posts here, and my responses, are an example of how it’s possible to have a reasonable and nuanced discussion on racism. Good job to us!
I know for a fact that I will never mistakenly go to work without my pants on. I will never make that mistake. Can I cease to be watchful in trying to avoid that mistake? Or do you think there is a chance that I might leave my house, drive to the metro, ride the metro, change trains, get to work, and sit down at my desk without my pants?
A more relatable example: I’m retired military. From day 1, we were instructed to ALWAYS use Sir or Ma’am or the rank or rank/last name of officers. Always! There was never a time to use an officer’s first name when addressing them. This was so ingrained into my behavior that no matter how drunk I got, no matter how well I knew the officer, no matter how many times they may tell me to call them Jim or whatever, I never, ever, called an officer by their first name. It just wouldn’t happen. And if someone told me, well you might make a mistake one time and call them by their first name, I would consider that notion ludicrous. I was never worried about mistakenly calling them by their first name. Just as I would never mistakenly arrive at work without pants on.
Not really an irrelevant point. They were cubic zirconium, and the reason that you use cubic zirconium is because it is difficult to distinguish it from diamond by the naked eye.
I was going for an honest answer, so maybe I over-answered. But you miss/ignore the entirety of the point I was making (which I can tell because you snipped that part of my post and did not respond to it.), in that a simple comment that was not intended to be insulting or racist by myself, the speaker, could very well have been taken that way by the listener.
Now, the fact that it is the case that only very few people could afford this, as the real thing, had nothign to do with race, and only to do with the fact that it looked impractically large and out of place, given the rest of his clothing, lack of other jewlery, and his '88 hyundai hatchback.
So, if you would like me to reiterate my point, it is possible to accidently say or do things with no intent of being racist, that still can be perceived by honest people as racist.
Would it be possible for you to get to work, all proud that for the 10,000th+ day in a row that you did not forget to wear your pants, when someone points out to you that your pants are ripped in the back, and your undies are showing?
Yes, I agree that it is possible for some people to accidently say or do things with no intent of being racist, that still can be perceived by honest people as racist. I’ve never proclaimed otherwise.
No, it’s not possible. Would it be possible for you to get to work and someone points out that you are missing your left hand?
I would put nothing past myself, least of all pants. Could be a core personality difference. I pretty much assume I am capable of anything in the right context, and guard myself accordingly.
It is legitimately true (with the “little bit” and “sometimes” caveats) that humanity comes with an ingrained tendency to stereotype the Other and to build assumptions on that which can often prove false, and can do so without even noticing. However, it’s also probably worth noting that with regard to this particular response I was having a little bit of fun here (as Darren G correctly spotted).
What’s the alternative? I say X. That guy over there says X is a racist thing to say. I don’t think X is a racist thing to say. Is one of us intrinsically correct? Should a speaker be allowed to say anything with impunity regardless of reaction? What level of proof should we demand of offended listeners to demonstrate that the remark was objectively offensive? Popular consensus is pretty much the only way around the problem of the opposing subjective views.
But I see iiandyiiii is doing a better job of arguing the same points already.
I got the point of your hypothetical, I was just saying how your hypothetical had to be stretched in order for it to be an equivalent analogy.
Cannibalism, used to refer to people eating non-sentient animals is something that is only going to be found in small insular cultures, like you say.
Racism, used to refer to treating people as though they are lesser due to their genetic heritage is not such an obscure use.
You may disagree on whether or not the actions that you are doing have an impact in treating those of different genetic heritage differently, but the concept should not seem that esoteric to you.
That’s easy to disprove:
“The moon orbits the earth”
“That’s a racist thing to say!”
“No it isn’t, you moron!”
see? It’s intrinsically correct that the statement is not racist.
Of course, my scenario depends on a certain attitude towards wearing pants I guess 
This is kinda what I mean about broadening the definition of racism. Ignorance, thoughtlessness, and carelessness are just that. Racism is something else specifically. Presuming that acts of ignorance, thoughtlessness, and carelessness are or may be motivated by racism is, in my opinion, problematic. Maybe the person is just an ignorant thoughtless careless asshole. Absent clear evidence that their behavior was specifically motivated by racism, there’s no reason to speculate that it may have been.
Yes, but “making mistakes, being careless, being thoughtless, etc.” is not racism. As I said before, I will never mistakenly torture a dog but I might mistakenly step on a dog’s tail. I will never mistakenly be racist, but I might mistakenly be careless or thoughtless to another human being, perhaps even a human being of a different race than I. But that just means I was mistaken, careless, or thoughtless… not a racist.
This is not how the internet is supposed to work.
Then do you agree that it is worth some level of effort to avoid doing such things, even if you do not think that doing those things would make you a racist?
Hands are different than pants. I was just saying, that no matter how vigilant you are in being pantified each and every day, things outside of the scope of your normal observation and control can conspire to leave your ass hanging out in the breeze.
I’m not sure what you are talking about now or what you are asking me. Do I think people should put effort into not doing or saying things that could be construed as racist? Of course I think that. How else would people stop doing those things? It doesn’t happen with no effort.
Well, as I was taught in the past “Stay vigilant!” I guess it could be used for ensuring one has non-ripped pants on.
Pants are tools of the oppressor.