Stupid used-car salesman tricks.

It must be the ‘used car salesman code of silence’ that prevents them from chiming in here and going…
BUH WA HA HA HA HA… SUCKERRRSSS!!!

Or maybe it’s a self selection thing, dopers are smarter than average and therfore not as susceptible to the spoon fed nuggets of CRAP that the car salesman dish up.

Before I bought my first car, I read “Don’t Get Taken Every Time.” Which I paid for, so on some level I got taken for the cost of the book, but it gave me the strap on spine I needed to walk in and out of the dealership 4 times before getting the vehicle.

Then I drove it for 8 years cause I didn’t want to have a car payment anymore. Anyway, I thought I was making a killer score on a 2002 at the end of 2002 with that 0% financing deal…Won’t see that in 2003. DOH!

“This is the ONLY car I could find with the options you wanted. There’s a woman driving in from Austin to look at it later today. Whoever wants it first can have it.”

Me-- “Don’t they have ford dealers in Austin?”

“You don’t understand, this is the only car in a 5 state area that has these options.”

Me–“Nobody has heard of anti-lock breaks in the south?”

“They just sold out”

Me–“Damn I’m impressed telepathy for a 5 state radius and yet it takes you 45 min to talk to your pit boss about the price.”

“No no, I check earlier because of the woman from…”

Me–“Houston?”

“Yes”

CRorex, my response to that ploy is to say that since the other person was there first then she has every right to negotiate for the car. I would refuse to even negotiate until the other person decided they didn’t want the car.

If pressed that it is ‘ok’ for me to try for the car, I have gone off on religion and morality and how I would never be such a lower-than-scum person to do such a thing and that if the salesman thought such practice was acceptable then I could no longer deal with him.

:wink:

It works, I think. At least the salesman never tries that trick on me twice.

So it’s not just me. Since no response to my question and wolf189’s experience matches mine I assume there is no quicker way to get the dealership down to a reasonable price…

There’s a dealership near me that uses the Saturn method … on their used-car lot. They’ll still negotiate on their new cars, but the used car prices are firm. And they’re actually around the blue book ‘fair dealer prices’, some a bit higher, some a bit lower. The salesmanship on those is to get you interested in the vehicle. The stress reduction is amazing!

Well, here may be the ultimate stupid used-car salesman trick.

Yesterday, the business manager of a now-defunct dealership in Limerick, PA was arrested and charged with the theft of about $5 million, mostly by stealing the identities of customers and using the data to submit false car loan applications. The scam involved at least 134 individuals and seven financial institutions. The fraud took place between September 1999 and October 2002, and began to unravel when numerous people found out they were unable to obtain credit due to the bogus, defaulted, loans on their records. In addition to customers of the dealership, victims included employees and relatives of the individual arrested.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pennsylvania/counties/montgomery_county/4948005.htm

I just need to chime in on this one… Ive had the you make the offer next to the red X and sign it and they will check with the pit boss and by signing is a legal agreement to buy the car if the pit agrees…

From what I read its not binding correct??
I also had the guy show me pictures of his family and how he has to feed them too…

Both of this happened with the same guy… I didnt buy the car, though i was drooling… Probably showed.

I worked for the used car section of a reputable high-line car dealership. We were not scum, at least not until just before I left. Here’s a little story about what it takes to be honest in the car biz, and how quickly a reputation can be wrecked.

The way we established our reputation was through acquisition. As a detailer and appraiser (as well as a lot of other things), I busted my ass to find cars that would–pardon the cliche–sell themselves.

And they did. Most were sold by used car salesmen who contacted their own harem of customers when something attractive came in. Believe it or not, I’ve seen the line “there’s someone else on the way to see this car” used with complete honesty.

I looked at about ten cars to find one I felt was worthy of consulting my boss about. He took about half of my recommendations. Any car we decided to sell was given at least a half day of mechanical and cosmetic attention. That was only possible because the cars we selected were already in excellent shape.

When we got a shitbox, we dumped it off either at auction or to other dealers. Ever see one of those little dealerships that sell nothing but Benzes and BMWs? Those cars are the ones the dealership doesn’t want to keep, and in my opinion something’s wrong with every one of 'em.

The process was time consuming and expensive, but it paid off in extremely high returns. It was not uncommon for us to make three or four times the profit a similar new car would make.

Unfortunately, the owner of the dealership was philosophically opposed to our methods. He’d see a car-carrier hauling off a couple of wrecked and repainted Porsches and go ape-shit about the money he was “losing.” They fired my boss and hauled in a new used car manager–a Cadillac man.

Within a week we had a lot full of unexamined, uncared for cars which had been given a LOF (lube, oil, filter) and a wash. The new guy also brought in a couple of Karo syrup-haired salesmen who were “real movers and shakers” and who somehow knew nothing–nothing!–about cars.

Two weeks after that I was gone, having quickly parlayed my own reputation into my own business. Within a couple of months, our competent used car salesmen had moved off to other places in the region which selected cars they could actually sell without violating their personal reputations and–in some cases at least–their consciences. Predictably, the high volume Cadillac Man generated was offset by dramatically lower profits and warranty-hits. He was gone within a couple of months, but by then, so were the rest of us.

I’m sure there are establishments like the one I worked for in every major metropolitan area. They coalesce and disappear quickly, because an honest used car sales system still rests at the apex of a corrupt pyramid of sociopaths and con-men. But if you can find and befriend an honest used car salesman, that fellow is someone to keep with you for the rest of your life, because honest salesmen must stick with their own kind in order to thrive.

If you happen to live in the DC or Philadelphia area and want an excellent used Porsche or Benz, here’s a few names you might try looking up. I can’t find any of 'em on the Internet.

Mike Wheeler (salesman)
Paul Zavag (indie dealer)
David Olympi (indie dealer)

Yep. That’s about all of 'em, I guess. Like I said, honest salespeople comprise a very small group within the car biz.

I used to work as a product information specialist for one of the Big Three. Call center work, and over the course of many moons of employment I must’ve heard “Why can’t I just buy the car from you instead of those sleazy salesmen?” about a billion times. So, silly me, I decided to give the sales biz a shot–hey, I’m smart and ethical and incredibly knowledgeable about the cars and customer oriented and interested in selling a product I believe in for a fair price–what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

Got hired at the top dealership for this manufacturer and found out damn skippy that I’m just not enough of a shitweasel to stomach A) the people I was expected to work with and B) the things they expected me to do.

Horrible stuff, complicated by a top sales person who decided it would be fun to follow me around grabbing my ass and trying to have sex with me. I managed about two weeks in that scum pit and quit. Slap suit for sexual battery pending.

Sooner or later these assclowns are going to wake up to the fact that the Internet means that they can’t lie to most people the way they’ve become accustomed to. I just feel good about the fact that I talked to 50-100 people a day debunking the total shit the sales weasels spouted out their syphilitic pie holes…

Good karma points for me, at least… cold comfort, perhaps, but mine own…

the key to car buying in my experience lies in not becoming too set on any particular vehicle, and being willing to walk away at any time if the price is not where you want it to be. And this rule has worked for me just as well when shopping for new cars as well as used ones.

digs around in the memory archives to pull up another story of a happy customer and an unhappy dealership

Once upon a time I decided that I needed to have a Mustang GT so I began to shop around for the right car… after visiting many dealerships it finally sank in that the car I wanted was nowhere to be found so I would have to factory order my car. Flipped a coin, threw some darts, and picked an unsuspecting dealership at random. Walked in one afternoon and asked to take one of their Mustangs for a test drive… 45 minutes later I finally returned the relieved salesman and the car to the lot and the negotiating began… this was the point at which things began to get fun as I broke it to the poor fellow that he wasn’t about to sell that particular car today. Instead I listed off the specific options which I desired to have and waited for him to realize that this meant a special order car. After further discussion he finally came up with a price (sticker price as it turned out) and informed me that I would need to put five hundred dollars down to hold my order. After happily taking my check and handing over a receipt he informed me that I would be called when the car came in and we could finish up the paperwork.

flash forward a few months later and the car comes into the dealership and they begin calling me to come in to pay the balance and take my car home… Several weeks later I finally stopped by the dealership and, rather than happily paying the balance or going with their financing options, informed the sales manager that we needed to start negotiating the price. As several more weeks passed the dealer’s willingness to come down to my target price increased rapidly (once they realized that I was quite willing to walk out on my five hundred dollar deposit rather than pay several thousand dollars more than my desired price). And so, almost 2 months after the car first arrived at the dealership, eventually they caved in and sold me the car for five hundred dollars over my target price (which price had been carefully researched to be as close as possible to their actual cost for the car).

Then I informed the sales manager that I wasn’t going to be using their financing and instead had already arranged my own financing through my own bank (so I ended up with a better interest rate and they got no interest kickbacks from their bank, a two for one deal I found truly irresistable). A big check was handed over, papers were signed, and I got my first taste of the joy that comes from NOT getting screwed over while buying a car. Gotta love it. :smiley:
wolf189

andymurphey69 - outside of going in and out of the dealership to get a lower price, you can wait for a rainy day at the end of a month when the car dealers are trying to meet their quotas.

You might also try smoking a pipe, car dealers believe that pipe smokers are the worst kind of customer, for some reason?!?!? YMMV

You could also wait till late September when they are trying to clear out the cars for next years model.

Outside of a house, a new car is a major purchase, so I think it is worth it to make 3+ trips to the dealer to get the price you want to pay.

You can also try www.Edmunds.com to see what a car in your area has sold for. You could, after picking the exact options, see what Edmunds price is and see how far away the dealer is from the Edmunds price… But you still have to be prepared to walk out and have the dealer either chase you or call you on the phone.

Good Luck,
-Sandwriter

What, he thought he’d never get caught?

There once was a man from Limerick
Who was mighty dim, Rick.
He was pleased
That he stole IDs,
now he’ll be behind bars & bricks.

Exactly the question; in fact, one of the articles I read quoted one of the victims as asking nearly the same thing.

Sandwriter, I’ve only had two complete car buying experiences and that isn’t much of a sample size to extrapolate from. I have tried your advice and, while I’m sure there is an effect, it isn’t a magic bullet.

My biggest surprise was finding out, aganst what I expected from common wisdom, that car salesman just let you walk right out.

If you play hardball and start to walk, nobody ran after me trying to get me to come back. Two days later, they call and are willing to negotiate more. I can play this game but it takes time. Days if not multiple weeks.

Maybe my complaint is that car salesman are not aggressive enough! :wink: I want to sit down and hammer it out, going at each other until we reach a price that we both consider fair.

Instead, I get 10 days of negotiation on a used Monte Carlo like in my previous post. Probably would have taken another 5 or more days to get down to a still too high but possible price.

Or, after not being able to get a salesman to negotiate I tell him I need to shop around. Does he try to keep me there to negotiate? No. He says ‘come back to me after you do this and tell me the price and we’ll talk’. ??? I told him that I considered his offer of full price his best deal and will not be back so he better give me his best offer before I leave. He just repeats for me to come back and I walk out the door.

I sent out faxes with the exact new car and options I was looking for requesting a bid. In the fax, it explicitely stated that replies with no bid would be thrown away and I would refuse to go to their dealership. I wanted BIDS! What did I get? Not a single quote and lots of ‘Come on in and see me’s!’. :rolleyes:

For used cars, how do you approach my example the Monte Carlo? Kelly Blue Book (already dealer friendly and inflated) says $2400 for dealer price. Price on car $5900? How do you even freaking start? Offer negative $2000? :wink:

I wish I could go with someone good. Maybe Wolf will take me along and show me the ropes next time he does this :slight_smile:

Sandwriter,

I forgot to mention about your Edmunds.com. I have done this also. I considered my information to be up-to-date, local and fair. However, every used car was priced usually double or more of my researched price at every place I went.

Sigh.

When I went to buy my car my I brought my husband along thinking I’d need him for support (he ended up turning to jelly as soon as I started negotiating with the guy, lol.) The dealer asks me what I want to see and says “it’s on our other lot” and so as we’re driving over he chats with my husband for about 5 minutes about football and then says to me “and what did you do today…shopping?”

I was too stunned to reply as I should have, which would’ve been:

YES! FOR A CAR, YOU DUMBASS!!!

Anyway, while we were negotiating he kept trying to weasel me up to a higher price. I told him “I’m paying cash. I have $xx,xxx – that’s how much I’m going to spend.” He was like “Oh well you can finance the other $700” or whatever. Like I’m going to get a loan for $700? RIIIIIGHT!!! Anyways, he does the stupid “let me go ask my manager” thing about a dozen times and each time I tell him “$xx,xxx.” Finally he comes back with their invoices or whatever and shows me what they paid for the car. He said “Don’t you want me to at least make SOME money on this car?” I told him “you won’t make ANY money on this car if I don’t BUY it.*” (At this point my husband got a “deer in the headlights” look and later told me he almost threw up.)

We argued for another half hour over $500 then he said disgustedly “all right, but I’m not giving you the floormats!”

ROFL! Like I can’t find a better deal than $500 floormats!

I ended up getting the car for about (supposedly) $150 over dealer cost (around $2,500 less than sticker) and 6 months later it turned out the floormats were being recalled by the company. Oh man, did I ever laugh!

I felt like a real bitch afterward but I think he deserved it for that “shopping” remark.

*It was the end of September, so I knew they were trying to get rid of their current year stock. I’m not so naive to think I’m the only person buying a car at any given time.