k.os.:
The list is very incomplete. I’m gonna make a complete one, but I’ll post it in the Cafe, to compare with others ideas of what should be on such a list. Then I’ll see all the things on all the lists and have much to talk about.
DaLovin’ Dj
Preferring Das Lied von die Erdeover Straight Outta Compton does not make you a better person, but it does make you a more educated person. Pop culture is the culture of the moment, and most of it is ephemera, here today and forgotten tomorrow. Ten years ago, Hammer was the hippest of all; where is he now?
Some elements of contemporary culture will endure past our lifetimes, not because they are hip, but because they speak to something deep within the soul that is constant with each generation Duke Ellington’s music was part of the pop culture of the 1940s, but it has endured because it reaches us inside where it counts. IMHO, most hiphop will be forgotten as the nextr musical rage comes along, but some performers, like The Roots or George Clinton, will endure because of sheer talent in creating great music that transcends its own time.
Ultimately, it comes down to what touches you personally. soem folks find that Busta Rhymes hits them in a place
Mahler can’t reach, and vice versa. You can be a totally cool person and never listen to one note of classical music.
However, if you have never heard of Mahler, Delius, or Berlioz, I’d have to question your expertise as a musical Arbiter Elegantiarum.
Mind you, I don’t want to pick on DalovinDJ too much, because I think he’s really likeable underneath his facile pose as a downtown hipster.
Honey, darling, sweetie, have you read the OP? I’ll emphasize the important bits for you:
condescension, thy name is duhlovin"dj".
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I think dalovindj’s a prick too but criticising the music he likes just because he likes it isn’t called for. So he’s into reggae, hip-hop, rock and funk. And he hasn’t learned about Mahler or Prokofiev yet. So? Does that make you better than him?
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Not at all, but for someone who claims to be a “musical artist,” not knowing one flying fuck about music history is pathetic and laughable. Tell me, would you give any credence a lawyer who’d never heard of Plessy v. Ferguson? A doctor who’d never heard of Pasteur? Jesus Christ, even Billy Joel knew Beethoven’s Pathetique.
Esprix
I think what I’m trying to say is that if you’re going to take issue with the fact that he criticises what movies people do/don’t watch, it seems uncalled for to then go on to criticise what music he does/doesn’t listen to.
“… and she only wants to make love!”
- T. Lehrer
Esprix
How about Farenheit 451?
Good point Esprix - I concede that if if he’s going to proclaim that he knows all about music then he should know about music history. He’s admitted that it’s not his area of expertise.
Sweetpea, lets look at this. You need to say that you were wrong. Yes, references may be useful in your job. Yes, chatting about Hobbes all night is pointless with someone who only knows him as a stuffed tiger.
But you’re backpedalling. Your original statement and a continuing statement of your (otherwise very fun) shtick is that there is a need for everyone to have the same experiances. Quite frankly, there isn’t. And for this crowd, I’d offer the sugestion that you remove that edge from your line. Its not going to work well on this audiance. Some of them/us will think you are limited to pop culture and frankly, they come here to get away from the inane regurgitation of 98% of pop culture. Some of them/us will just dislike you for being a prick.
For me personally, it colors your otherwise fun loving charactor poorly. Like finding out that the guy who you thought was SO material thirty seconds ago just told an off color joke to your mom. Whatever other cool stuff he has to bring to the table, I’m not going to let it get to my table.
As far as I can see you have two choices. A) apologise for being a git and remove that bit from your routine. (Read the audiance, man.) B) if its not a part of your act, but rather a part of how you truly feel, keep it and understand the fallout when we think of you as a small minded freak.
As for me, I think you’re fun. I like thinking of you as Sweetpea for the cognitive dissonance and I’d like to see you as a happy and loved part of the SDMB community. But I also find it hard to believe that intolerance is part of any one’s true charactor.
:shrug: You’re right. It seems to me, though, that instead of criticising him for his musical knowledge, some folks are criticising his hypocrisy.
I agree in a vague way with the OP. Part of the reason I’m watching the AFI’s Top 100 movies (and you can follow along in the Cafe Society) is to understand some references and be able to discuss them. Prior to watching Lawrence of Arabia, if someone had said “Boy, he looks about as Arabic as Alec Guinness” I would have been blissfully ignorant. Having seen the film doesn’t necessarily make me qualified to discuss it intelligently, but I will now be able to at the very least have some familiarity with the topic should it come up in conversation.
I don’t (consciously) think less of people if they’re not well-read, unless they’re willingly ignorant - i.e. “I don’t read any book that doesn’t come in graphic-novel form” - but in my experience, if someone refers to a book, a movie, a historical event, whathaveyou, and I can only respond with “…um, huh?” then I feel like I’ve failed as a conversationalist.
Doesn’t mean I’m a bad person, or that I’m talking to the wrong person, just that it’s showing me there’s an area where I can improve.
Put a beer in my hand on a cool Sunday afternoon in autumn and I’ll argue why the 3-4 defense is underutilized in the NFL and why I still think free agency ruins the game. Put a baseball program in my hand and ask me to put those marks in the little boxes as the game goes on and I’ll give you a blank look. I’ll discuss Prokofiev until I’m blue in the face, but my only exposure to hip-hop music comes from MC Hawking. Intimately familiar with Lovecraft, never read anything by Stephen King. I’ll argue that Don Rosa is better than Carl Barks, but will return to my blank stare when asked about Preacher or Transmetropolitan.
Basically- I agree with a general statement that it is a Good Thing if people are more familiar with various forms of culture, but trying to put together a definitive list of literature/art/music/film that people should be familiar with is a difficult proposition.
The problem with spending all your time learning about pop culture is that is just that, popular. If you are at a party, and a conversation about Tarantino pops up, then most everybody can join in the conversation. However when you have knowledge of more obscure areas you can find out what the hot chick likes to talk about, and quickly seperate out the herd by steering the conversation toward Kirkegarde or Camus. However if you are in a group of wanna-be intellectuals, then that wont work, as The Stranger is required reading for intellectual wanna-bes. You may have to go toward Hockey, or warplanes or something else. “Luke Skywalker” may get the conversation started, But “Fritz Lang” has a much better chance of getting her in bed. 
There is effectively no difference between having a 100% knowledge of pop culture, and a 30% knowledge. In that there are so many people talking about it that you only speak every once in a while anyway, filling the charade perfectly. If you take the time that you would have spent on that other 70% and learn very specific yet totally pointless things about other areas you will have the ability to fake that you fit in almost anywhere.
lno I think you nailed the nail right on the head there. I have no problem with people suggesting movies/books, but if I were to start a pit thread everytime I get a “Uhh? what?” when trying to talk about books or movies, I’d have almost as many posts as handy! Ever try discussing “cities of the Red Night” by Burroughs with most people? The whole point I think is tolerance and willingness to share. There is a difference between that and trying to insult people because they don’t have the same cultural background as you.
Hey, at least it keeps Allan Bloom off the streets!
Ah, yes, “Alma.” “…she married Walter and Gustav and Franz…”
(anxiously look at DalovinDJ to see if knowing Tom Lehrer’s songs makes me cool :rolleyes: )
How the hell do you figure that? So listening to classical music makes you more educated huh? Why? not like there’s much in the way of lyrics so what do you learn from listening to it? Oh yeah usually how great God is.
Does that mean I’m really educated then since the majority of the music I listen to is about history and lit. Iron Maiden has tons of references to classic lit. Oh wait Helloween uses classical musical passages in their music that must really make me educated since not only do I get the classical music but I also get modern music to boot! :rolleyes:
The only reason to know anything about classical stuff is so when you come across it in reference during a movie/book/music. Any other argument is total bullshit.
You’re cool to me gobear, but then I got all the referances.
Originally posted byk.os:
There is also a difference between a mean-spirited, sincere insult and good old fashioned ball-busting.
DaLovin’ Dj
I’ll marry the man who understands and reads Kerensky.
the problem with pop culture is how quickly it dates you.
don’t get me wrong, I love making references such as
“Pretty sneaky sis” (connect four commercial)
“sorry charlie” (sunkist tuna)
etc etc.
but I don’t revolve my way of live around them.
nor do I look down on those who don’t get my silly references.
because Ultimately, “a royale is french blah blah blah” is the same thing as “go see cal go see cal go see cal” ( a southern Californian car dealer)
I have to agree that for the most part,
the only reason people (in general) liked half the stuff on the list is because * everyone else does *.
and you can quote stuff from them and be assured that “people will get it”.
people love to be sheep.
sheep, I tell you.
high school cliques are forever,baby.
or so it seems.
Pop-Culture
:rolleyes: Oxymorons make Baby Jesus cry.
Steven
I think we’ve become so enamored of pop culture references these days that we’ve forgotten to have a point behind them. I see, in Target (just to show you how cutting eadge we are here) t-shirts featuring logos for “Mr. Bubble” and “Quisp” and the like. Why? When you wear the “Mr. Bubble” t-shirt, you’re making a pop-culture reference, but to what end? When you say, “May I play?” in reference to the old ‘Operation’ commercial, you might get some yuks out of it from people who are familiar with it, but again, what have you communicated, other than your familiarity with old toy commercials?
Likewise with Pulp Fiction, which I have seen and enjoy. I can understand that you should see the movie if you plan on discussing it, or such, but does recognizing the Royale With Cheese quote make you a better person? Does making the Royale With Cheese quote make you a better person?
I don’t really know the answer to this, because I do think, for example, there’s a reason for reading Romeo and Juliet in school, aside from the actual knowledge of the text of Romeo and Juliet. I do think it helps you to know these things, to know where there culture is and came from. And I admit that I get a little weirded out by people who have no familiarity with Romeo and Juliet. But Pulp Fiction? Call me elitist, but maybe, like saints, there needs to be a waiting period before we canonize pop culture things. I don’t know what it would be, though.
I think being able to refer to things that are part of the shared consciousness of a society can increase your communication ability. However, that makes the assumption that (a) you’re communicating something other than ‘hey, remember this quote from Star Wars?’ and (b) the consciousness truly is shared. Part of the problem with the whole pop culture thing is that on the one hand, people want to argue that this is part of culture, so it should be known by all, but on the other hand, you get bonus points for having a more obscure cereal box on your t-shirt than the other guy has. Pity the guy wearing “Boo Berry” when “Fruit Brute” walks in.