Yes - all classical music is sung, in Latin, and beyond that, there is nothing to learn from it.
:rolleyes:
You’ve already proven your education to us, thank you very much. Let’s not go overboard now…
Esprix
Umm, actually Das Lied von die Erde has lyrics, supposedly adapted from 7th century Chinese poetry. I say listening to serious (“Classical” really only refers to the 18th century composers, like Mozart and Haydn) music makes you more more educated because it requires greater depth of thought to understand its structures. For example, you can listen to any given symphony, and hear how the composer creates a simple motif, takes it whirling through different tempos and across different families of instruments and then brings it safely home again. I don’t think Busta Rhymes can do that.
That is not to say that enjoying Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony makes you any more worthwhile a human than enjoying rap. There’s a lot of skill involved in hitting a beat with the right words in the right intonation. Eminem and Jay-Z are awesome.
However, as much fun as hiphop is, most of it is ephemera, destined to be as forgotten as Rudy Vallee. Some hiphop artists might leave a legacy (my money is on The Roots), but most won’t because they had nothing deep within them.
I hate to break this to all you hep-cats, but truly cool people don’t have to talk about how cool they are to prove they’re cool. They just know it.
Like me.
Damn it!
[DaLovinDJ** I just found it silly to start a pit thread about the fact that someone hadn’t seen Pulp Fiction. I found that:
Yeah, I know you said in the sentence before that people here are genereally well read and everything, but still, some have decided not to see that movie. I saw it with friends and was very unimpressed.
Pop culture is mostly self-referential, and is limited. The best movies/books I have seen/read were suggested by friends, or when I went out on a limb and picked up something that looked interesting even though I hadn’t heard of it before.
I agree that there are some classics that have influenced the way people write books or make movies, and that having knowledge of them is going to help you understand movies and books being writen now. However, there is so much out there (both movies and books, let’s not even get started on music:D) that with the limited time I have on this earth, I have chosen to experience some and therefore do no have the time to experience them all.
It all boils down to what you like most. Some pop culture references whooosh! me outright. Others, I don’t even have to have seen the movie they’re making fun of, I can deduce from context and previews/reviews/etc… But if you want to talk about Cronenberg’s or Lynch’s movies, or about ‘Pi’ (excellent movie, very original) or some of William S. Burrough’s books or Robert Anton Wilson or C.S. Hyatt or McKenna or Leary or Crowley or… Well, I hope you understand my point. Everyone here has different interests and tastes. That’s what makes this place interesting. I think probably your intentions were good, but maybe you should be more open to differing opinions. There’s nothing wrong with you if haven’t read any of the authors I mentioned, same as there is nothing wrong with someone who has decided not to see Pulp Fiction. Do not ascribe ignorance to people who have chosen to experience different parts of the wide spectrum that is culture. People will respond better, I think.
*-) K.os
Defensive much?
No, listening to Classical doesn’t necessarily MAKE you more educated, but being familiar with the history of an art form is always a good idea. In art, in drama, in literature, in music. It’s just a good thing.
:rolleyes: Really. You obviously know nothing about Classical music, so could you stop embarrassing yourself here?
::cough cough::
Oh puulleeeeeeze. What is this whiney shit, “Well, no on really likes that stuff! It it’s over my head, it must be over your head too!” Give me a break.
Bullshit. I grew up listening to Classical. My parents (blue collar workers) loved it. My mom played Classical piano, my dad had a collection of thousands of LPs.
But I am not even the greatest scholar on the stuff - many Dopers here know far more than me. But I grew up loving it. One of the first albums I owned (at about age 12) ever was “Copland’s Rodeo”. My favorite singer at age 12 was Ivan Reebroff (sp?). I thought the “1812 Overture” was the coolest. I still love and listen to Classical daily. My radio never strays from the Classical station. It’s WHAT I LIKE, OK? And I certainly am not the only one. People crowd into the Hollywood Bowl to listen to concerts - and they are not old stuffy intellectuals. Just people who love this music.
Legomancer:
Great post. I’m laughing my ass off:
Better person? No. Better equipped person? Yes.
Interesting point. Should time be the only factor? Should overall impact also be considered? Is there such a thing as an instant classic?
Definately. It’s more like “You know what I’m talking about? It’s like when Han blasted the alien in the Cantina, if you know it’s gonna be on, strike first!” Now I’ve used a scene from a movie to elaborate on my point that you shouldn’t avoid conflict.
True, knowing obscure stuff can come in real handy, but everybody should have at least a base knowledge, like required reading lists in grade school.
Too much. It took me a while to stop laughing.
DaLovin’ Dj
As someone who has worked within the film community for years, I can honestly say I’ve never had an intelligent conversation that hinged on my fluency of The Sound of Music. And the I-don’t-know-Prokofiev kills me because that means you aren’t fluent in two media–not only 20th-century music history but film history, too.
Large chunks, eh? So you’re saying films like Armageddon, Twister, Home Alone and The Mummy Returns are essential viewing? After all, they’re amongst the biggest all-time moneymakers* so someone must have thought they were important.
So no Friends, Survivor, Buffy or Sopranos, all inarguably popular and arguably “important” in their own ways? May I respond with your own words:
Oh, and a “cannon” shoots cannonballs.
[sub]*not adjusted for inflation[/sub]
This is why I love interacting through a message board.
Had you said that in person, you would have been the lucky recipient of my blank stare and “…um, huh?” response. Instead, thanks to some quick typing, I can feign familiarity with The Closing of the American Mind and say that I knew exactly what you meant, and congratulate you on a well-made reference. 
I believe six feet of dirt is keeping Allan Bloom off the streets permanently.
Must switch college major…must switch college major…
not really, just knowing history means nothing.
Lets see the majority of music that I played in the Orchestra in both high school and college there was little to no singing, and what there was was mostly religious music. The majority of Bach’s music is also religious is it not? I’ve forgotten most of my classical music but what I do remember is mostly religious work.
never said it was over my head did I? nope, I wrote that wrong so let me try again. Knowing classical music, books etc is only good to the majority of people to understand a joke or talking to someone. I didn’t say that the only people that listen are intellectuals. It wasn’t whiney either.
and? you trying to puff up your chest here or something? I’ve got plenty of LPs, CDs, books too BFHD. I’ve played in all sorts of different bands from Jazz to classical to marching bands again BFHD.
The point is that not listening to classical music or reading clasical lit makes you a better person, though around here it sure does seem to. Do’t believe me then really read how people talk about such stuff. Look how people talk about the Beatles or Shakespeare, don’t try and tell them you don’t like it because they’ll lay into for not getting it.
ArchiveGuy:
I never claimed to know everything, but I’m dying to learn. Why is this film and music? I’d do a search, but I’m mixing posting and working all day, and don’t have the spare keystrokes for research at the moment. Not knowing isn’t stupid. Not asking is.
Just because large numbers of people have SEEN the movies, doesn’t mean that they think they are important. Upon discussing those films with friends I typically get responses like “Good action, bad writing, unrealistic storyline.” These are not movies that anyone I know would consider important or must-see.
No, I’ve been living in New York working 3 jobs and trying to date, while at the same time engaging in a delightfully large amount of partying. I’m barely home, and when I am it’s to sleep. I’ll eventually see all of the Soprano’s (they’re gonna be on DVD), I read all about Survivor on the net, and I’ve never partaken of Friends or Buffy. I can’t find the time unless I can schedule the time. And TV has it’s own schedule, and we don’t have a VCR that can record. So I miss most good TV. I won’t miss Star Trek tonight though.
Incidently, similar arguments make it forgivable for not having seen the movies or read the books of which I speak. If you’ve been busy getting a doctorate in physics, I can understand. If you’re studying to be a lawyer, a couple extra hours for entertainment may be hard to find. But the girl from the OP wants to be an actress for christ sake. Don’t get me wrong, I’d still sleep with her, she just needs to see a few movies and read a few goddamn books or it’s straight-to-video at best.
**Oh, and a “cannon” shoots cannonballs. **
I concede the point. There are far many better typists than me here. I think faster than I write (unlike some here who seem to have the opposite problem). I sometimes preview, but sometimes I’m busy. I am doomed to live amongst the typo commoners.
DaLovin’ Dj
Thanks, but I was actually thinking of Harold Bloom, author of The Western Canon, not Allan Bloom, the late, gay cultural gadfly, or even of Molly Bloom, reminiscing about her girlhood in Gibraltar, her adulterous affair with Blazes Boylan, and the night her husband, Leopold proposed to her, and she said “Yes I will, Yes.”
I also feel obliged to point out the large number of people I’ve seen who believe pop-culture knowledge is essential, who have absolutely no concept of anything that happened more than twenty years go.
Premier, Kiss off.[sup]*[/sup]
No it doesn’t.
Watching The Cincinatti Kid doesn’t make you a better equipped person, but being able to recognize the film’s similarities to Pushkin’s The Queen of Spades does.
Rarely.
And you end up sounding like a nerdy virginal, pasty-faced, socially-awkward Trekkie (sorry, Trekker) or whatever the term is for those obsessed with Star Wars.
Phanton Menace? Haven’t seen it.
I’m a rather corpulant Dr. Who fan, but I don’t go out of my way to work it into explaining a situation. Unless I’m talking to other fans, and even then I avoid it.
IMHO, using movie scenes as schorthand for explaining a real-life situation isn’t being cultured (or whatever), it’s being to lazy to use your own words.
So, by your standards, we all have to see movies A, B, Q, X, and Y?
Same here, only laughing at you, not with you.
No no no no no no!
It’s The Loving DJ
Say it!
The Loving DJ
Say it damn you!
[sub]* A Dr. Strangelove reference for anyone who actually cares.[/sub]
By corpulant, I mean large or big.
As in “I’m a big fan of X and Y”.
Yes, it was supposed to be shorthand.
:eek: O the shame of it. I thought you were referring to
< pop-culture reference >
Milo Bloom, who wrote:
*
Gimme Twinkies, Gimme wine
Gimme Jeans by Calvin Klein
But if you split those atoms fine
Mama keep 'em off those genes of mine!
Gimme zits, take my dough
Gimme arsenic in my jelly-roll
Call the devil and sell my soul
But mama keep dem atoms whole
*
</ pop culture reference>
<sniff>
Beautiful, wasn’t it?
I think that about sums it off for this discussion.
Fenris
How I love to watch the morn,
With golden sun that shines
Up above to nicely warm
These frosty toes of mine.
The wind doth taste of bittersweet,
Like Jasper wine and sugar;
I bet it’s blown through others’ feet,
Like those of…
Caspar Weinberger.
- Opus
(“Start over!” - Milo)
Esprix
Hold on a second here.
“More than twenty years ago”?
TWENTY years ago?
Oh man. This is going to shake my Young Earth Creation faith to the core. After flirting with Last Planck-length Intervalism, I had settled on the fact that YHVH-1 (Bastard Alien God from some Corporate Sin Galaxy) created Earth NINETEEN years ago (due to highly occult reasons having to do with gematria and numerology), with all memories of the new people (self included) manufactured to make it appear older.
Damn these crises of faith.
There there Esprix…hands him my sons blanket the heathen will be stuck down… preferably by a large truck