A somewhat (that’s putting it mildly) odd question for those interested…If you were designing a suit of armor, using present day knowledge, techniques, and materials, for use in an otherwise “normal” medieval battle environment (i.e. Guys with swords, no guns), how might you design it differently? Use materials like Kevlar or Titanium? A transparent face plate? None of the above?
And I know everyone’s thinking it, but don’t answer with “add an Uzi” please. We ARE aiming to keep this within the realm of rational possibility.
Are you working against medieval weapons, or modern swords and such? Medieval swords (western) for instance, didn’t hold an edge long, so they turned into blunt weapons. A modern sword most likely would be crafted to keep a sharp edge, so the ability to resist a cutting stroke is more important. Plate armor does have the advantage of being effective against cutting, stabbing and bone-crushing toys (like a mace or battleaxe), the trick is to get it both strong enough and light enough, and to have enough padding. But I always found that full plate armor interfered with my mobility (but I have breasts to contend with, and they do get in the way–if the plate is wide enough to protect all of the breast, it interfers with my ability to move my arms across my chest). That’s one reason I really liked overlapping plates, they moved. Really, the classic designs for armor are all there, it is the materials that could make the difference. And I always had someone make my armor, so I never paid much attention to the materials. But, think protection against crushing more than cutting, and go from there.
it’s AWESOME armor… basically a robot you can climb inside of… think Battle Mechs or the robot thing from one of the Aliens movies. With a nuke launcher on the back. q;}
I’ve been wanting to design “Modern” armor for a long time… not the power armor, although that will come eventually, but a simple suit of plate mail armor, made from modern materials.
There’s a (quite insane) guy out there who was attacked by a bear once. Ever since, his goal in life has been to make a bear-proof suit. You may have seen it on TV.
He’s actually made a few versions. One was a cool blue plastic over kevlar and some other stuff… he got hit by a truck in it, and rolled down a hill, and was smiling when he was done. It was basically plate armor, with modern materials. Good mobility in it…
…but not enough protection, he thought, for bear attacks.
So he made a new one… and it was a JOKE. He couldn’t move in it, hardly at ALL… a slow waddling walk. But they swung a log at his chest, and he shrugged it off, sooo…
SWAT teams have some good pieces… bulletproof vests aren’t much good for slashing or blunt weapons though. Gonna have to design something new.
Not quite the same. In Battle Mechs, IIRC you sit in the head and pilot this giant robot thing. Powered armor you wore just like an armored suit. The difference was powered armor weighed about 1 ton & had motors and servos to move the thing. The cool thing was you didn’t have to learn how to pilot it, you just wore it. Sensors inside would sense when you were moving your legs or arms & make the motors move the armor. Another cool thing was it had jump jets so if you jumped really hard, the jets would kick in. All the weapons & sensors were added on but not really part of the suit.
One thing you would really want in modern armor is some form of cooling. Possibly an air bladder inside wrapped around the torso with air pumped in and out by the motion of breathing and walking.
(yeah they had something similar in dune)
There is a lot of BS around about Western swords. I assume you are talking about cutting swords like longswords (the “military sword”, the bastard sword, greatsword, early cut-and-thrust rapiers, etc.). They were quite excellent weapons, fully capable of cutting through chainmail and would most definitely hold an edge. At the extreme end of their lifespan as a military weapon, longswords were turned into quasi-maces in the hope they could crack through plate, but the better armor then was so good there was no longer a useful war sword. Maces and polearms won the day. But yes, they did in fact hold an edge quite well, even when whacking off limbs and chainmail left and right.
Irrelevant; even against decent 16th century armor no modern cutting weapon would be sufficient. That stuff was nigh-impossible to cut. The only counter was high-velocity arrow storms, blunt, and piercing weaponry, and even those were not sure things. Some kinds of plate mail were so exquisitely made they could easily stop bullets from that era!
You could make armor lighter, perhaps, and a bit more mobile, but really do you need it? In that stuff you are a tank. Knights were the worlds first heavy armor brigade, ladies and gentlemen. The only difference now is that today its the vehicle that wears armor, rather than the warrior riding it. (and the technology in general is better, of course).
To be honest, you’d need to create some sort of mobile mechaninal slicer to attack the wearer or such armor effectively in melee, and that isn’t a good sort of weapon to use in a ranged attack-era. That’s why melee wepaonry isn’t important anymore.
I wholeheartedly agree with what you have stated about the effectiveness of western medieval weaponry with one minor exception: the part about the maille. While a proper medieval longsword could easily cut through the cheaper butted maille that was worn by common forces, a vast majority of the mail used by knights and their men at arms was rivetted, and a whole lot more endurant. I have performed test cuts with a properly weighted and balanced replica of a long sword against patches of both; the butted was torn open quickly, but the rivetted maille, though it did deform, retained its solidarity. This is why rivetted mail gussets were still used through the 15th Century…in order to provide a working defense for areas that still could not be armoured and allow for effective movement. Of course, this was nullified during the 16th century by further advancements in articulated plate, and, of course, the further and expanded use of personal gunpowder weaponry.
As to the OP, you really need to specify what the armour is going to be used for before this question can be answered. Even in the middle ages, there were different types of armour used for different reasons, and this can make all the difference in the world in regards to how it is made.
Any number of alloys would probably allow you greater mobility and strength of armor, but smiling bandit has his facts pretty well in order. For the most part, a fully armored knight of the medival era was well nigh indestructable unless set upon by several people at once, knocked over, and killed while on the ground.
Good examples of the effectiveness of armor can be found in accounts of the battles of the Crusades, particularly the second and third Crusades. Arab warriors did not use heavy armor, and were often at a loss for effective combat in close quarters with Christian knights.
For intersting reading along these lines, I recommend Warriors of God by Thomas Herndon.
One big difference would be the availability of impact-resistant transparent materials for faceplating. Old style helmets were always a tradeoff between protection and visibility. I think you’d see something like a riot-helmet faceshield, with maybe a football-helmet style guard in front for extra protection.
As for plate armor, I’m sure titanium, fiberglass or graphite would provide equivalent protection at reduced weight, and reduced weight is always helpful in combat situations. You might also have super-resistant materials like iridium alloy covering a few small but vital areas.
As for design, I’ve wondered if modern precision machining could allow things that weren’t practical in the days of armorsmiths. Could you have a helmet mounted on a pitch/yaw set of swivels so that it’s weight rests on a collar ring instead of the head? Could you build something like a lockgrip pliers mechanism into the gauntlets so that you can lock your grip around your weapon? Maybe even build an entire weight-bearing framework into your armor so that while standing most of the weight is being born by the armor? Springloaded leg joints to aid walking and climbing?
I just finish Crichton’s Timeline. Sort of like Jurassic Park, with armoured knights instead of T-rexs. SCA and tourney folk will like. Sans doubt a future summer movie.
Well, when I first started fighting in the SCA, my armor was made out of high density plastic (I got better).
My second set was made out of an old grain conveyer belt. It actually turned a knife with ease, and handled being stuck by a sword quite well too. Like heavy leather, only tougher.
Lumpy, speaking from experience, it’s not entirely bad to have the weight of the helmet on your head. I have found that a heavier helmet keeps my head from rocking as much if I get hit, thereby reducing the chances of whiplash type injuries. Also there were gauntlets made in period that could be pin locked around a weapon, so that it would not be dropped…not quite a “vice grip” but then, a vice grip would also cause a drop in the mobility of the weapon.
As for the weightbearing framework, I’ve actually seen this done. The main problem with it was that, while the suit wasn’t too heavy to wear, it was a major pain to move in. With a properly fitted medieval harness, the armour’s weight is fairly evenly distributed over the body, tied in various places to make it seem lighter than it is…so though your body is bearing the full weight of the harness, each part of your body bears a little of it, and it makes it feel much less heavy, and allows you to move easily. With the frame supported suit I have seen, the legs and back had to do a tremendous amount of extra work to move the suit than they would have if it had been properly pointed to the person’s body.
Tristan, what do you fight in now? I am working on a “as close to accurate as SCA rules will allow” suit currently; late 15th Century Spanish harness, with floating steel arms, pointed 3/4 legs, and fitted brigandine. Thus far, it is coming out really nicely, and looks to be a vast improvement over my first suit of pickle barrel plastic and aluminum…
Sadly, right now I fight in Cotehardie and braies from the sidelines as I slowly accumulate armor to fight in. I’ve got a 13th Century Plackard that I got from a friend, and I’ve got some elbow and knee cops that need to be strapped, but the biggie, as usual, is my helm. I have to wear my glasses under it, so I’m kind of stuck trying to save up several hundred dollars while trying to pay child support, fix a car and save up to move…
While I don’t regret leaving the unit I was fighting with, I do regret the loss of armor associated with that decision. I’ve missed so much time I’m going to have to re-authorize completly.
