They’re the 3rd and 4th largest military spenders and the 5th and 6th largest economies, have nuclear weapons, are two of the three “big three” countries of the EU and have seats on the UN Security Council. They’re obviously second to the US and China, but I’d say their claim to being major world powers is correct, especially given that they often work together and with other EU countries.
What?
I’m pretty sure Franco-British (or is it Anglo-French) relations–by turns strained and cordiale–antedate the some 130 years or so that the United States has been a Great Power.
Sometime in the 1980s:
Sir Humphrey [scornfully]: Our nuclear deterrent isn’t to protect us from the the Russians.
Minister: What is it for then?
Sir Humphrey: It’s to protect us from the French, of course!
Not guaranteed verbatim.
I think you misread the French. Any opportunity to embarrass * les ros boefs tm* will be jumped on, even if it means sucking up to the yankque. You’d have better luck with the krauts frankly. Remember, the French bankrupted themselves by 1783 just to tell GIII to bugger-off. In this pissing match, you will be lucky to hold Scotland and Northern Ireland. I’ll spot you Wales and Cornwall and the Isle of Man, wherever the hell they are. Canada will stick with us, Mexicans will line up to enlist at every Home Depot in North America. Yeah, you’ll get Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro, but Raoul will probably lie low. You will get North Korea, but not Iran. Shit, only one “pole” of evil. The Japanese are big anglephiles, but they remember what happened they last time they crossed us: the radioactive fallout awakened Godzilla who is still trashing Tokyo. The toughest you guys can get is drag out Maggie and have her drool on a Fox News reporter. On the bright side, Charles will probably stick with you.
You guys seem to forget we have God on our side.
With Him and the Channel Islands plus the Isles of Man and Wight, you Yanks wouldn’t stand a chance.
What?
No, no, no. The Japanese would be with us because every Japanese man wants to be an American Cowboy. For that matter, we have cowboys, England’s got… what, those fuzzy hat guys? No contest there.
While you are right it’s worth noting that in that situation if everything was as it is now you wouldn’t be at war with just Britain, you’d be at war with much of Europe. There are agreements in place in Europe that are outside of NATO about mutual protection.
I’m pretty sure there’s no mutual defence pact between EU countries, unless you’re talking about the WEU which is defunct and has been for ages.
Its one of the reasons the French think the Brits are bad EU citizens, until very recently we prevented almost all attempts at EU military integration because we were afraid of sidelining NATO. Also we would have annoyed the Americans which as a bad idea as a lot of our military tech is based upon your stuff…
I don’t think the ESDP provides for mutual defence either, as I recall it specifically doesn’t want replicate NATO functionality.
And the Japanese would be with us. Tea Drinkers unite!
Well if and when ireland passes Lisbon, there will be one in place. Britain, France and all the other big boys have already passed it but it won’t be law until Ireland passes it which may be in 10 weeks time when we have another referendum about it.
Article 28 A(7) States : If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter
Why all this talk about war?
In my OP I specifically said short of actually going to war.
Honestly, some people
That’s very true, so to address the OP directly:
I think 1) It will drive the UK towards greater European integration, particularly if this is something that pisses of the general public, and makes the US seem like an unreliable ally.
- In bodies such as the G8 the UK will be less willing to support the US over issues such as financial reform, I guess that applies vice versa as well, so in the long run that will make them less affective at promoting “Anglo-Saxon” capitalism. And may even give a leg-up to the BRIC countries or France and Germany.
I think it would have far more impact on British domestic politics then in America (virtually none) except maybe if its so severe that the UK pulls out of Afghanistan (Only possible if there’s a new Govt.) Which would require more US troops to be sent or abandon the mission, neither are palatable options for Obama.
Well, these are my off the top of my head thoughts, feel free to tear them down.
What a ridiculous thing to say! What, in your mind, does make a world power? Being one of the largest economies on the planet, with one of the most potent militaries on the plant, having a veto position on the Security Council, possessing global financial, cultural and diplomatic influence, nuclear arsenals, some of the world’s most respected intelligence agencies … none of these things count?
So, in your opinion, the country consists of the US as a world power, and a bunch of itty bitty countries? Do you *really *believe the world is like that? What qualifies as a “world power” to you, if none of the above? I suspect whatever criteria you’ve decided for yourself, nobody could match it.
No, they aren’t superpowers. The US is the only current superpower. But they are definitely world powers and they have vast amounts of influence and power, whatever Fox News might tell you.
Bush was warmly received in Albania.
He emigrated to the colonies in 1776. Do try to keep up!
Well, England’s got some scary Morris dancers. And Scotland has men in kilts with big swords. And Wales has got, um, druids who could do long poems at you.
While it’s a digression, Europe couldn’t stand up to the US military either.
Bah, not impressed. 
So was Norman Wisdom.
And vice versa. An actual, honest-to-God full scale war would go nuclear and both sides would lose. The UK and France have more than enough ICBMs to cause any nation-state in the world to effectively cease to exist.
Yes but you kicked him out in 1783.
Do try to keep up