Supposedly I Need a New Engine

After debating on what forum to post this in, I settled here. If it’s better suited for another, feel free to move. Thanks.

Now, some background.

Last Monday, I started my 1996 Toyota 4Runner to go to work, and I noticed a tiny puff of blue smoke coming from the exhaust. “Hmm,” I thought to myself, “that’s not a good thing. Maybe I imagined it.”

No more smoke during the day.

Same thing happened Tuesday and Wednesday- small puff of blue smoke on startup, but never again throughout the day.

On Wednesday, I called my local Toyota dealership and scheduled a service appointment for the following Tuesday.

No smoke on Thursday.

Friday morning, I notice some oil underneath my 4Runner, but again, no smoke. After I got home from work, I searched for the oil leak and discovered that it was coming from the breather (oil was also in the air filter, but just at the very bottom).

So, I call Toyota and move my appointment to Monday.

After leaving the 4Runner parked all weekend, I drive to the dealership bright and early Monday morning and drop it off for them to check it. Several hours go by, then I get a phone call from the technician that tells me I need a new engine due to sludge.

A $7200 new engine.

WTF??!

No warning signs, no “check engine” or “check oil” lights. No hesitation. Absolutely no signs of a problem at all.

I change my oil regulary, get regular tuneups, etc.

This was a shock.

So, has anyone else experienced this problem, and what would you do in my situation? So far, I’ve got one other opinion and they say they can probably repair my engine and clean it up for about $3500, which is better than $7K, but still.

Why the hell did my engine have a heart attack?

Never heard of a toyota doing this. Maybe you should get a gm vehicle.

Also, take it to a gm mechanic and see if they say the same thing. (or any other mechanic, but I just have a good history with the mechanics at my chevy dealer).

“sludge” is mechanic-speak for “I’m behind on my mortgage payments and I’m gonna take this sucker for all I can.”

A little puff of blue smoke at startup isn’t a problem - you didn’t say how many miles are on the vehicle, but the smoke’s from a bit of oil in the combustion chambers - probably a sign of leaky seals on the valve stems.

As for the oil “leak” that’s really just oil in the air filter - probably a clogged PCV valve. In fact, I’ll wager that replacing that $5 part may even help with the blue smoke on startup. I’ve seen engines that squeezed oil out of every possible hole and seam because the PCV valve was clogged.

Ask friends, neighbors and anyone else you can think of for a good mechanic.

I agree with gotpasswords.

Even Toyota 22R’s (I’m guessing that is what you have) that smoke like Dennis Leary and use a quart a day will keep running nearly forever.

Methinks your mechanic has a low opinion of you and may also be a crook. :slight_smile:


“Lets get them meek bastards NOW!

If it’s the 3.4 engine, they’re notorious for sludge build-up, which causes the valve stem seals to fail, which causes oil smoke out the exhaust on start-up. The typical cause is not changing the oil often enough. If you’ve followed the “normal service” recommendation of 7500 miles, that’s probably the explanation.

Often oil in the air cleaner is from engine blow-by due to worn piston rings, another possible result of the above.

If you’re very lucky, replacing the PCV valve may solve some or all of your problems, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Get a second opinion. If, sadly, the engine is on its way out, there are other good options besides a new engine from the dealer. Good rebuilt and good used engines are available, and I would expect them to cost noticeably less than what you were quoted. Be aware that poor rebuilt and used engines are also available–choose the repair shop carefully, and satisfy yourself that whatever parts are provided are of top quality.

The above posts (except for kputt’s, which are rather less than useful) are all pretty much accurate.

If the engine does need to be replaced, you certainly don’t need to spend 7200 or even 3500 doing it. The 2.2 SR5 engine I’m assuming you have should be available reconditioned or rebuilt at a reputable independent Toyota specialist, and you shouldn’t pay more than 2k for one. Also, you’ll probably be able to get one with fewer actual miles than your existing motor (you’re over 100k I’m guessing).

Don’t be calling mine useless. Hey, gm vehicles are just as great if not greater than imports and gm mechanics are good mechanics. :mad:

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I think we’re all on the same wavelength.

kputt, your posts are pretty useless to me considering I’m driving a Toyota and intend to continue driving the same vehicle. Why would any sensible person take a Toyota to a GM mechanic? Please go elsewhere if you want to push GM products.

give me a break. GM Mechanics can work on foreign cars, plus their labor rates are probably half of those of Toyota drivers. I will never drive any import.

kputt, this thread is not debating import vs. domestic built automobiles. If you don’t have helpful advice, relevant to my situation, please leave.

All I said was get a second opinion and I recommend a gm mechanic because they are excellent in what they do. I saw that as useful and relevant.

And the one post that I said buy a gm vehicle was just a joke.

-hijack-
In any case, kputt, an American label does not make an American car, and an import label doesn’t make an import car.

Chances are the OP’s 4Runner was built in North Carolina or Cali. Chances are equally high that your Chevy was assembled in Venezuela or Mexico.
-end hijack-

We now return you to our regularly scheduled engine rebuild advice.

On a seven year old engine with probably only 100K miles on it? Wow. That really, realy, sucks. Is this sludge something that can be hot-tanked away? If so, will he actually need any new parts, or just new rings, a hot tank and a hone? I mean, not having to replace cam, lifters, pistons, timing stuff, oil pump etc., would save him a lot of money…

The examples my research found had 88,000 (sludge mentioned) and 68,000 (sludge not mentioned, but valve stem seals bad). Yeah, it does suck. That particular engine is very sensitive to oil change intervals.

I don’t know how many internal engine parts are typically affected. Certainly not every case requires a comprehensive list of replacement parts, so repairing the engine is often an adequate, and as you point out less expensive, option.

As a number of us have mentioned, a second opinion is appropriate.

I just wanted to point out that sensors do not pick up on a smoking engine. Your SES light will go on when a sensor is in failure or if it picks up on knock, low/high voltage reading, etc… These sensors do not pick up on leaky valve seals and PCV valves. …Jus sayin’. But the O2 sensor may pick it up as an emmisions failure if it is smoking all the time, but will ignore the burning oil in OPEN Loop (cold engine).

I agree with ‘gotpasswords’. FWIW, I have a 475hp/500 ft-lb 383 V8 that I picked up for $5200. This is a balanced and blueprinted engine, and a whole nother level more than what you’re talking about here.

Find another mechanic. Have the engine leakdown tested. Find out WHAT the design failure for this motor is. DO A LITTLE RESEARCH. Cause Knowledge is money - In this case, $7500 worth. The only issue is, who’s pocket is that money going to be in, yours or the mechanics?

Chances are, if the clearances are acceptable, you may be in for headwork and rings. That’s a helluva lot less than a new motor.

Als keep in mind that this guy’d have YOUR motor afterwards. A goo spray with a power washer and he could take another dude for another $7500.

GM cars are made all over the world as far I know. I was only joking about buying a gm car.

Anyway, I was only saying go see a gm mechanic because they are highly skilled and the labor rates are probably half of those of Toyota. I didn’t see any harm in saying that.

Can we have a cite showing that GM trains its mechanics better than everyone else, please?