I will take kputt at his word that he has had very good experience with his local GM mechanics, and thus thought that iceman could be well served by GM mechanic is his area. The later Chevy Novas were essentially Toyotas with Delco radios, so it’s not an outlandish suggestion.
The other side of the coin is that most GM mechanics would not be familiar with the details of Toyota’s 3.4 engine, and most GM dealerships would probably be reluctant to take in any non-GM product unless they were quite slow. They wouldn’t have the necessary repair information and parts at hand like they do for GM products.
It’s also helpful to realize that what’s true in one’s personal experience is not necessarily true in general. You can’t depend on all GM mechanics in all places being of the same caliber as the ones kputt has dealt with. The real point here is to find a specific shop that is highly qualified in terms of competence and integrity. Depending on where you are, that shop could be a Toyota dealer, an independent garage, a GM dealer, etc.
I don’t know where the idea came from that GM rates are less than Toyota rates. My observation is that most dealerships in a given area tend to have fairly comparable rates. It’s always possible to find some differences, but half? Nowhere close to that in my experience.
I reviewed all the posts in this thread, and found no claim that GM trains its mechanics better than anyone else. I did find this: …take it to a gm mechanic…(or any other mechanic, but I just have a good history with the mechanics at my chevy dealer).
Where a car was built is essentially irrelevant. Where it was designed is the significant factor. One can make distinctions among Asian cars as a group compared to American cars as a group compared to European cars as a group. Your Honda is a Honda, whether it was built in Japan or Ohio, and will have an Asian character in this context. Your Buick is a Buick, whether it was built in Michigan or Mexico, and will have an American character. By character I mean general tendencies in certain engineering aspects. Yes, I’m generalizing, but if you compare, say brake designs between Asian cars and American cars, you’ll see what I mean.
Sorry for my neglect of this thread. My 'puter at home died.
Thanks again for all the advice. I have an appointment on Monday with a mechanic I trust (not a dealer mechanic), and he seems to think I’ve been told a load of bullshit. I tend to agree.
Anyway, I’ll let you know what he finds out, in case anyone’s interested.
$7200 for a truck engine? What, is it made of gold? Is this what engines are going for these days?
There’s gotta be a cheaper way. Go to an auto wrecker and look for a used engine. Get a factory rebuild crate motor. Something other than ordering a new one from Toyota.
Yeah its a bit steep for an engine. I replaced an engine in a 1992 ford explorer for about $1,500 about 4 years ago. That include all the parts and labor. The trick is to buy a used/rebuilt engine from a wrecked toyota. My ford is about to hit 200k in the next couple of weeks which is 130k from the second rebuilt engine! Get a second opinion and another mechanic too.
That’s a typical “normal service” recommendation for Asian cars–from the manufacturer. The “severe service” recommendation is typically half of that, 3750 miles. Of course, the majority of folks do a fair amount of city driving and qualify for the severe service oil change interval. Since virtually no one reads their owner’s manuals, many are not very knowledgeable of maintenance requirements and recomendations.
A number of the very late model cars have even longer oil change intervals. It looks scary, but one would presume (hope?) the engineers know what their doing.
I’m scared now… My new Accord says, in the manual, 5,000 for severe and 10,000 for normal driving. The dealership says every 3,750. I’m planning to take it in sometime this week for its first service; it has 4,500 miles on it. Should I have done it sooner? Should I follow the dealer’s recommendations or the manual’s?
You should be fine following the factory schedule. The recommendation in the manual is from the people who designed and made the car, specifically automotive engineers. They know what they’re talking about.
The dealership apparently is quoting the interval that applied to earlier model years. It may be that you talked to someone whose info is not up to date, or it may be that the service department has chosen to ignore what Honda says about the newer models. It’s a pretty sure bet that there’s no automotive engineer at the dealership, and it’s a pretty good bet that they haven’t had enough field experience with the newest models to justify contradicting the owner’s manual.
Oil change intervals based on months and/or miles are necessarily approximations and averages. The only way to know for certain that oil needs changing is to do a chemical analysis on it, which is not feasible. And there is so much variance in how cars are driven–percentage of short trips, how short those trips are, etc.–that no rule of thumb can apply perfectly to all.
One key point for all to keep in mind: check to find the recommended oil viscosity (e.g. 5w30) for your engine, and satisfy yourself that you’re getting the right stuff. Some places (even a few dealerships!) seem to put 10w30 in everything. Unfortunately, some engines will have premature problems if that is done. The occasional top-up or odd oil change is not a concern, but the great majority of the time the recommended viscosity should be used.
After talking with my mechanic today, I’ve decided to take this plan of action:
My pcv valve will be replaced, oil and filter will be changed, and a powerful cleaning agent added. The 4Runner will be run for a while, then the oil and filter will be changed again.
After I pick up the truck, I’ll change the oil and filter again after 50 miles (this cleaning agent apparently ruins the oil rapidly while cleaning out the gunk) to prevent clumps from stopping up the oil pump.
All in all, I will pay about $175 today, and keep watch on my engine. The mechanic seems to think I might be lucky and have no engine damage.
Wish me the luck. I’m relieved to cut the cost from $7200 down to $175…at least for now.
If you drive a Toyota SUV, change the oil more often than recommended. I don’t have a cite for this, but a certified Toyota technician told me these engines are “unforgiving.”
Be careful with that “powerful cleaning agent.” I started a thread on this topic a couple weeks ago, and folks like GaryT said that it could actually cause worse problems by dislodging the sludge and redepositing it elsewhere. Maybe GaryT will expand on this.
In the meantime, your truck is running, so what’s the problem. Oil is cheap. Just keep it topped off. If you’re worried about environmental considerations, I’m confident that you can offset them through other means, such as driving less or carpooling. Why spend $$$ to get an engine that doesn’t send out a puff of blue smoke upon startup. As far as we know, your truck could still be running 5 years from now.
Thanks y’all. Amazingly he only had scratches. That’s one tuff little truck. (well, was). The front crumple zones absorbed all of the energy (he hit a tree). from the firewall back it was still a new truck. sigh
I understand the risk I’m taking. Before I pick up the 4Runner, the mechanic will have changed the oil and filter twice. I’ll change the oil and filter again after 50 miles (and probably several more times at frequent intervals until the oil runs “clean”).
Gary T: By changing the oil at such early intervals (and several times), I’m hoping to avoid the ‘lodged clump’ problem. Do you think I’m safe?
It’s a risk, but I don’t know how big a risk. While some shops/mechanics offer this sort of internal engine cleaning, and presumably don’t see it ruin a lot of engines, others are cautious and fearful of the worst case possibilities. I find that a majority of my colleagues are in the cautious camp.
One way to look at it is, in a worst case it’s going to need essentially the same repair you were told about at the first. In that sense, you aren’t risking much.
A safer approach would be to remove the cylinder heads and thoroughly clean them off the car, replacing the valve stem seals as well. This is major engine work, and would cost quite a bit more than 175, but quite a bit less than 7200. If there’s concern of sludge build-up in the oil pan, it could also be removed and cleaned.
Respectfully, I’m not sure you do, as even Gary T, an automotive expert, isn’t sure himself.
But here’s what I don’t understand, Iceman866: why risk a potentially damaging procedure when all your truck is doing is producing a tiny puff of blue smoke at startup?
No offense, but aren’t you jumping the gun? What indication have you that your truck is on death’s door?
