Suppressed Power Techology since WW2?

I just read about the possibility of hydrogen cells being used to power homes and businesses to handle the massive demand of power, not that I, among others, have not had a similar idea ever since the power cells were created for space.

A long time ago, a group of people, including me, were speculating on potentially hidden roadblocks behind the scenes of human progress here in America. Mental exercise and masturbation was what it was, but now, in retrospect, decades later, I uneasily have found some of it to be accurate.

We determined that oil, power and automobiles were interlinked to control fuel and transportation prices long before the 70’s oil crunch, and after that happened, we strongly suspected that it was engineered by the same power base to not only increase profits, but to wipe out minor competition by small oil companies, car makers and to break a hold Texas had on prices. Just like what happened years earlier to Nuclear power, which is still proven to be cheaper than anything else around and, properly managed, the safest, which went from solving all of our power woes to being about as popular as baby feces. (See, they made a real big point about disposal of the waste, while ignoring the fact that petrochemical waste was already doing more damage now than the radioactive waste might later on and possibly on a much wider scale.)

When we spotted alternate motors using little or no petrol being ridiculed, junked and discredited (not all of those inventor claims of patent demonstration tinkering designed to cause the motor to fail are false), we took note. In our town a 1970s electric car, made by a local inventor, is still on the road in active service today, unchanged. He was refused a patent for his design as unreliable and unworkable.) We became convinced that various greedy powers were deliberately holding onto the secrets of power saving technology to keep themselves in the Chief Seat, raking in money. When barrel prices for crude dropped, pump prices did not and that caught our attention and then we found that the major banks were investing in Saudi oil, something so volatile as to be a risky investment. How best to destroy the American economy than to get the banks to invest heavily, then bottom out the oil, causing the main banks to crash and start the stock market crashing also, which would trigger a major depression?

All power saving efforts seemed to help little because no matter how much people strove to reduce power, the bills dropped little over all because the costs per unit kept going up. (Like in Florida, where there is a drought. People are ordered to conserve water. They did, too well because now the cities are increasing water bills because too little water is being used.)

The way we look at it is that the Power and Oil consortium have deliberately delayed, fought down, discouraged, discredited and otherwise manipulated the introduction of power saving technology until they already had managed to gain major power bases and capitol in this area to protect their butts and guarantee a smooth switch over into positions of power when the inevitable change comes. They knew that they could not delay us forever because not too long back, a guy built a 100% self sufficient house, which generates its own power, is highly insulated, ecologically friendly and within means of someone else besides the rich to buy. He sells power to the power company from his excess.

A furniture maker took over an old mill and generates enough power for his business and attached home to not pay any charges to the power company, and sells excess power to them.

Colleges are real close to developing not only fast electric cars, but better, smaller batteries.

Independent people are on the verge of sending people into space cheaper and faster than NASA.

Pissed off inventors are reworking solar cells, the solar technology, insulation factors, and even building technology and eventually, with all of this combined, people will use a fraction of the power they use today and used back in the 50s and are not going to tolerate paying even $100 a month for using one-eighth of the current normal power consumption. Power companies cannot justify the costs. Car dealers cannot justify their costs. Oil companies are running out of excuses for high pump prices with low barrel costs.

I think the power base has been in existence ever since WW2 and we have suffered for their greed a great deal and what worries me is that there are signs of other such illegal power consortiums forming. Plus, you think the power cell makers will not have some link to the greed three? That they will either be very costly to offset years of power usage or very cheap and designed to wear out do you’ll need to buy more to keep the cash flowing in and there will be expensive disposal problems that ‘just come up’?

BTW, keep an eye on independent farmers fighting off the big farming groups and take a good look at the seed companies supplying their hybrid seeds. Watch the airline companies now that trains are starting to reappear (France has magnificent passenger train service, cheaper than flying and, at times, driving.) Watch the ‘free’ Internet also, especially e-mail. There was a bill in congress once to start charging a fee for e-mail because of the decrease in profits from snail mail postage cause by it. Others are working to find ways to charge you for free web phone service and using the web in general.

If there is a free, potential money making service around, someone will either try to shut it down and provide you with a paying service or force through laws to change it into a paying one. It has happened several times with the Internet services.

So, how long before independent power sources show up for homes, and, unnoticed, there will be links to power, oil and automobile businesses?

There was no such bill in Congress. And these ‘others’ working to charge for web access are most likely legitimate businesses who have every right to charge for the content they produce and publish, or telecoms companies who have the right to charge for the use of their network infrastructure.

Of course, whether the prices are fair is another matter, but there isn’t a global conspiracy to restrict internet access.

Wheeee! Of course, I don’t understand why Japan, a country with no domestic energy sources, has failed to use all this free power. Here is a country of top engineers and physicists who spend millions importing oil, coal, gas, and uranium, all of which needs to be paid for in hard currency. Big energy doesn’t control Japan. So why can’t the Japanese, who are the natural enemies of big energy, develop all this wonderful free energy?

The mistake that conspiracy-heads like you make is that you imagine that the world is monolithic, that all countries are the same, that all businesses are the same, and that competition is impossible. Look, energy is a big business, sure. But there are lots of businesses that are energy customers that are much bigger. Why don’t THEY develop this wonderful suppressed technology?

Anyone can make an electric car. I have a mechanic friend who made one himself. He ripped out the engine of a compact and stuck in an electric motor and some marine batteries. The thing still runs after several years. So what?

And one more thing. Hydrogen is not an energy generation mechanism, it is an energy storage mechanism. Sure we can burn hydrogen in our cars, or for electricity. But where does the hydrogen COME FROM? We have to make it, and the only way to do that is to use electricity to split water. And that requires, you guessed it, energy! And that energy must still come from conventional sources…coal, nuclear, hydro, etc.

There are physical limits as to how much energy can be utilized by a gallon of gasoline. Apart from the glaringly obvious fact that germany and japan had a serious need for high mileage engines during the war, and none was forthcoming despite “secret weapons” the stoichiometric ratio for air and gasoline is around 17/1 or somesuch. There’s no away around it- vaporization, magnets, buddhist monks, whatever, isn’t going to alter that.

Even if efficient batteries are invented, they have to be charged by electricity- and that’s produced by gas, oil, nuclear, etc etc.

I like the idea of self-sufficiency, though. Hasn’t some interesting work been done with dynamos or rapidly spinning flywheels? Certainly the automobile is anything but efficient.

The Postal service doesnt make a profit. In fact, it is not allowed to.

I have no doubt that that they will. Fortunately, Al Gore was not elected; I have little doubt that Ralph Nader and Steven Schneider will soon meet with their fates, too.

MAXIMUMSTRENT1 wrote:

… and found that most of these “inventions” stank of the same crud found in Free Energy claims, I’ll bet.

Or maybe, just maybe, he was refused a petent because electric cars have been around since 1834. Even hyrbid gasoline-electric cars have been around since 1903 (with power steering, no less).

MAXIMUMSTRENT1, your homework assignment is to study the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and post a short explanation on this board. I think that will take care of all your questions about infinite energy sources.

MAXIMUMSTRENT1 wrote:

… and found that most of these “inventions” stank of the same crud found in Free Energy claims, such as the ones at http://www.syc.org/e/dennis4.html.

Or maybe, just maybe, he was refused a petent because electric cars have been around since 1834. Even hyrbid gasoline-electric cars have been around since 1903 (with power steering, no less).

I suppose it’s time to trot-out the Tesla Turbine again…
Aditional links.

All this is well and good (hey, now, stop your snickering over there!), Maxi dear, but . . . sorry, I can’t help myself.

Can you give a link to support anything you’ve said in here?

And if so, please do:)

Tranquilis wrote:

From that link:

“Fuel consumption, resulting in air pollution and acid rain, could be significantly reduced simply by replacing the conventional blade steam turbines currently used by utilities with the Bladeless Tesla Steam Turbine.”

He’s claiming that a Tesla boundary-layer bladeless steam turbine will be significantly more efficient than a conventional bladed steam turbine? cough cough Yeah, right.

As a student of the alternative energy sector, anybody interested should search on Ballard Power, Fuelcell Energy, Active Power, Capstone Turbine, Plug Power, and Energy Conversion Devices.

These are all serious companies with excellent ideas in the alternative energy field, and a casual perusal of their respective websites will reveal the OP to be the hokum you suspect.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells - you still need to use electricity to seperate out hydrogen, and you have to store it. I personally have severe reservations about driving around with a tank of compressed hydrogen. Remember the Hindenburg? Efficiency improvements, better catalysts, on the possibility of onboard reformers and/or metal hydride storage for hydrogen make this a real viable possibility though.

Flywheels- Big problems trying to turn a vehicle with one of these things spinning around in it. Besides, a 500 pound heavy metal bar spinning at 50,000 rpms turns a fender bender into the equivalent of a good sized bomb going off when it tears free.

Improved Turbines- highly useful and efficient.

Lemur866 Conspiracy heads like myself and others have kept you with the ability to flap your lips at any place and time, sonny boy. The postal service, in 1997 made a move to charge for Internet mail, but was shot down. The current freedom, you need to recall, is on the government net set up for the government and only lately opened to the public. Currently the government places no restrictions or charges on what is now the Internet we all know and love, though they easily could, just as they could prevent access to it.

A GM expresident wrote a book about the automobile industry, detailing how energy improvement ideas for the motors and safety for the employees was steadily shot down until he started moving up the ranks. Most automobile makers were interested only in profit and production, not safety. Current events have disclosed many conspiracies within businesses from Firestone Tires, to the limited yield seeds (seeds which will not reproduce viable plants so farmers cannot allay next years seed prices by retaining seed from the crop). Synthetic fertilizer companies lying to farmers about benefits of some man made fertilizers that eventually leached the soil dry of organic goodness and require more and more synthetics to grow crops. TV was full of gasoline price gouging just lately. Last year two pharmaceutical giants got caught trying to rig the price of certain medications. The Brooklyn Bridge is built with around 1/3 of it’s cable below specs because of a conspiracy favoring a lower quality company to provide the steel cable along with the builder. That is in the history books.

Pet food companies often saturate cheap pet food with salt to increase the pets desire for it and lace it with organic indigestible like corn byproducts for filler. Check with any vet. Until lately, this was a guarded secret. Each Viagra tablet costs pennies to make but sells for $10 each and the companies involved have openly lied to the public about the manufacturing and research costs.

So, there’s ample conspiracies out there. Do you know that racketeering charges placed on loaners of money start when they charge 25% interest? My visa card legally charges me 21 and 1/2 legally and on some instances can get up to over 22%. Have you noticed that the interest rate is higher on cash withdrawals and that you’ll pay your entire credit card off before those charges are touched, earning the company gobs of money. You cannot even stipulate that a certain additional payment is to go into paying that debt off first. A little conspiracy there and barely legal. Barnett Bank has been involved in several schemes and called to account for them also.

All others
AOL posted the news report on the cell. Don’t the power cells aboard the shuttle use less power than they produce, which is why they are used in the first place? I never stipulated any ‘magical power source.’ The local electric car has been running for over 20 years on 1970s technology. Pretty good if you ask me.

Want a perpetual motion engine? Use an electric motor to turn a generator which produces more power than the electric motor needs, feed it into the motor. Use an outside source to get it up to speed and it will run until something burns out.

The original light bulbs, after some work, lasted for years, until manufacturers found it beneficial for it not to. The basic principal has not changed much since it was discovered, but the durability sure has. Long life bulbs are only a few cents more expensive to make in bulk than what we have now, but the businessmen opted for greater profits and for ways to keep factories open when there were just a few, so now they burn out in around 1000 hours. Fluorescent lights, cheaper on power, were considered more harmful on the body, both physically and mentally and extensive psychiatric tests were done on people having to work under them in the late 60s and early 70s. In brief, fluorescent lights are unfavorably harsher and worse for people than incandescent, yet, thanks to the big conservation push, they are being touted as the best thing since baked bread for use in the home and shop. Their basic technology has not changed much either, being primarily mercury vapor lights, emitting dangerous ultraviolet rays and noxious fumes if broken.

Incandescent lights emit no such dangers. Incandescent lights, it has been found, are closer to natural light. The public is not being told the truth on the ‘new’ lights.

Anyhow, I’ve always suspected that any changes in power supplies will only come when the power consortium has it’s eggs all lined up and ready to not loose any money, and then changes will happen. Any cheap, new form will be metered and dribbled out to the public so as not to ruin the economic levels already set. If I gave you free power today and just threw it out on the net for all to understand and build their own power generators for this power, cheaply, the American economic structure would crash, and so would the worlds because they have based far too much on inflated fuel levels and inflated power charges.

Just like those cities I mentioned in Florida with their water.

This is getting silly. Are you playing games? Insulting our intelligence? Do you actually believe this?

Actually the stupid thing will just run until friction and the load on the generator bogs it down.

As any 8th grader knows, this is just pure hokum you’re spouting. It’s ridiculous.

If you think you can do this, call up James Randi. He’ll give you a million dollars if you succeed.

Your success will make you the savior of the earth, and we’ll all read about you and worship your intelligence and admit humbly that we all doubted way back when.

So don’t waste time telling us about simpleminded perpetual motion machines. There have been some pretty sophisticated sincere attempts in this area as well as some damn clever and ingenius scams.

What you’re posting though is strictly bush league. Not even that, really.

It’s kind of embarassing, you know? Like playing Scrabble with somebody who can’t read.

And this was in what bill?

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Which companies? Which medications?

Which history books?

This is the most likely to be true. But it doesn’t take into consideration the other costs that are involved when a large company makes a drug (legal, marketing, salaries of those involved, etc.).

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When? Where?

I think you’re talking about energy, in which case the answer is “no”.

Won’t work. Too much energy is lost in the form of heat. Just like every other perpetual motion machine out there.

You don’t seem to have heard of the concept of a “cite”, so settle down and let me clue you in. Nobody here is willing to accept what you say without evidence. The best evidence you can give is telling us where you got your information from. If you won’t, then we have no reason to believe that you aren’t just making it up. The take-home lesson? If you want to be taken seriously as a debater, tell us where you get your facts.

Its heavily subsidised by the French government. That’s how its so cheap. Costs in implementation had been over-estimated by the SNCF by up to 75%. The TGV was the world’s biggest loss-making exercise in the mid-1990s. Read Jonathan Fenby’s excellent book on France, called “On the Brink” at pp24 and 164.

The Viagra comment overlooks that companies bump up prices to cover R&D, and to make up for the fact that pharmaceutical patents never last long enough (as far as a pharmaceutical company is concerned) to optimise profits because of the length of time it takes to get a pharamceutical patent registered.

In-built lifespans on products regrettably happen but in many countries with fair trading legislation are illegal. Australia’s General motors subsidiary, Holden, allegedly produced a car with a support bar purposefully prone to rust faster than the rest of the car, but were called to account by the Trade Practices Commission.

Thanks MAXIMUMSTRENT1, I needed something to lift my day, that one about the perpetual motion machine was priceless…

…you were joking, weren’t you?

Could make it kinda hard to turn corners too; as anyone who ever played with a gyroscope will testify - even if you mount the flywheel so it’s spinning in the horizontal plane, it’s going to make driving up and down hills interesting (not the going up and down, but the fact that the car has to tilt to do so.

the best application for flywheels (I think) will be to transfer the kinetic energy of a vehicle into them (for braking) and re-use the stored energy for pulling away again when the lights change. (don’t some vehicles already incorporate this technology?)