Sure, Go Ahead And Smack The Kid: That'll Make Him Behave

The BBQ Pit
21

Once again,

Case Sensitive implies that, although unacceptable in modern discourse, a blow to the head would be an effecive method of dealing with the problem related by the OP in the other thread. (That is, the child found repetitive sounds or behaviors irritating and left the room.)

It is a mountain out of a molehill? Perhaps. I cannot claim objectivity on this issue; my mother was outright physically abusive on occasion–despite her training as an LD teacher, she found the strap to the buttocks, back, and on one occasion, face, to be an appropriate way to deal with a 14 year old who she suspected of some nebulous malfeasence–but what I endured was nothing like what many of my contemporaries suffered. Spankings were for toddlers; by the time a child was walking and talking, the belt came out. If they were in double digits, it turned to a strop, a switch (not a little peach switch–we’re talking diameter-of-thumb size), and if they were shaving, an outright beating was called for.

I remember the kid who sat two seats up and one row over in chemistry; one day he didn’t come to school…anymore. His father beat him senseless, and he suffered permenant brain damage. That was an extreme case, but by no means were beatings–busted lips, broken teeth, visits to the ER for “falling down the stairs”–atypical. And the kids learned to pass this behavior on to younger siblings and other students, a behavior school officials considered to be “boys being boys”. Hell (as one principal told me), he bullied and was bullied by kids all the time when he was a student, and he turned out just fine. (No word on how the kids he bullied turned out.)

So the suggestion that one address a problem that could, quite possibly, have a neurological origin, or otherwise is an indication of some kind of emotional distress, strikes a resonant cord in me. I realize the response to pathologicizing many behaviors is to exhibit doubt and distrust; that sort of reservation is healthy, and as many pointed out, whether you consider it a disorder, a personality flaw, or an attitude, the child does have to learn to live with people. Getting him the appropriate help and teaching him how to cope with irritations is the correct response. Punishing him, criticizing him for his sensitivity, and definitely striking him, are not appropriate suggestions for dealing with the problem.

It could be that I’m blowing it out of proportion, but it pissed me off, and so I directed that part of my response to The Pit. It seemed the best thing to do.

Stranger

22

Sounds like you are understandably sensitive about the subject. I found it to be a relatively ignorant throw away comment from someone who is under the general impression that there are no childhood disorders and it’s all just “kids being kids.”

Like I said. It’s ignorant, but it’s not advocating child abuse.

23

Look, I got spanked when I was a child, and yes, it was the deterrent my parents hoped it would be. I was naughty. It put me in line quickly. I was an intelligent child, but still - I am not sure a good talking to would’ve had the immediate effectiveness that a swap on the touchie had.

Time came, though, when I clearly said to them at the dinner table one night “You can’t hit me anymore. It makes me crazy” And I was not exaggerating. It definitely was helping rewire my brain. They thought I, being the teenager i was, was being overly dramatic. Next time came for mom to hit me for a discipline move, things didn’t happen in the way they normally would’ve, and escalated far beyond where they should have.

Mom starts going after sister, i can tell what’s coming, I divert mom’s attention, she gets mad at me, comes after me I repeat warning, she ignores it, she smashes me and - I can’t remember what happened. Nearest I can tell from what others say is that I faought back terrifically, broke my mom’s nose (I feel horrible abbout that to this day) and her glasses, and was asked to move out of the house for a week. So I stayed at my friend Kate’s while things calmed down.

See, I thought I had done the adult thing in that situation - I had made a clear statement - you can NOT hit me anymore, becaue it’s doing something to me that’s different now than the punishement it was before.

I’ve gotten away from my original idea. I believe in swats on the butt when you are misbehaving. I also believe you use your hand, open, and if your hand hurts, think about what the child’s skin feels like, and know - really know - the age to stop using it as a punishment or deterrent. Have a conversation about it - it might assist the child/emerging adult to see there are other consequences, and they can be just as painful (No Playstation, no car, no money…)

24

I think your OP begs the question of whether he does suffer from any form of attention disorder, or just plain ill manners. No, of course I don’t advocate smacking kids for having medical problems {or for spilling milk, or writing left-handedly, for that matter}, and my choice of words in “a clip round the ear” was probably a little too hyperbolic, and rather unfortunate. I don’t think children should be hit on the head.

I do think that a moderate amount of physical punishment - a smack on the bum, say - can be warranted if the child’s deliberate behaviour is bad enough. I’ve smacked my son {after repeated warnings and banishings to his room} for punching and kicking his mother, because I know he knows better. I hated doing it, but it was effective as a last resort, and I’m not apologising for it.

I know that corporal punishment is a contentious subject, and having read your last post, Stranger, I can understand your sensitivity about it. I chose my words rather badly in the original thread, in my haste to express a strongly held opinion about whether willful wrongdoing is being excused away too often, and I apologise if that offended you.

25

Look, just forget corporal punishment for a minute. I don’t see why neisa’s kid has to be punished at all.

We don’t yet know why noises and movement bother him. When neisa figures that out, either through discussion with him or after a visit to a doctor, then she can work out a way to modify his behavior. Punishment would accomplish what, exactly? Stop him from being easily irritated? I don’t see how.

And I am sick. To fucking. Death. Of people who automatically yell “Brat!” when someone talks about a problem with their kid, or any kid. That’s bratty behavior right there, IYAM.

26

You do realize that this is not the standard progression, right? I know lots and lots of parents who’ve spanked a toddler, yet only one who’s used a belt on an older child. I dissaprove of using “weapons” myself, but I also recognize that someone who spanks a young child for deliberate disobediance does not automatically graduate to beating them into brain damage in the future.

27

I always ask proponents of corporal punishment how it would work with them. You know, the boss walks by and thinks you have been a bit long on the phone to your girlfriend so gives you a “swift clip over the ear” to improve your performance. Will it?

28

I always asks proponents of ridiculously inaccurate analagies how it feels to be so silly. You know, your brain gets tired of thinking logically so it gives you a “kickstart into bizarro land” where your scenario might actually have some merit. How does it?

29

GK Chesterton. C’mon, Google! :wink:

30

Thank you for putting that so succinctly.

31

Which Chesterton book is it from? I don’t recognise it.

32

So we should spank our children continuously until they do what we want them to?

Heck, I think I could handle this parenting thing fine! :slight_smile:

33

Except it’s NOT an inaccurate analogy, and you haven’t even tried to give any reason why anyone should think it is. You don’t like it so you summarily declare it false and snottily echo the posters words back at them with no thought added yourself.

You spelled analogies wrong, but that’s nothing a little good ass whuppin’ won’t solve, right?

34

How is this a ridiculous analogy? You really can’t get much closer. The parent is the ‘superior’ to the child. The parent makes the house rules and wishes the child to follow them.

The boss is the ‘superior’ to the employee. He makes the work rules and wishes the employee to follow them.

Now… if said boss were to hit the employee, he runs the risk of getting hit right back given similarities in size. The child has no such advantage and therefore must endure the corporal punishment.

Lets say your boss had a huge size advantage, and you did not have the option of leaving your job. The boss’s use of corporal punishment would probably produce results from you, but only till you could find a way out. And those results would not carry over into your home life or anywhere else the boss wasn’t looking.

35

From a newspaper,apparantly.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton

36

Darn.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton

37

This isn’t GD, and I’m not interested in a three page analysis of the subject, so I’ll just say this. If someone sincerely believes that their relationship with their boss is qualitatively equivilant to their relationship with thier mother, then not only do I feel horribly sorry for them but I also feel that their boss probably should smack them around some.

Is that an offer?

38

Not really. It’s not a superior/inferior relationship, it’s a teacher/teachee relationship.

The parent sets the rules because the child following those rules will help the child grow up into a good adult. The employer sets the rules because the employee following those rules will make the employer more money.

Why isn’t it okay for schoolteachers to hit students, then, you may ask? Answer: Parents are teaching behavior; schoolteachers are teaching information.

That’s why it’s a ridiculous analogy.

39

Not to mention the mindset and mental abilities of a child and the abilities of an adult are a wee bit different.

40

kung fu lola already mentioned this, but I’ll ask: cite!?

Because people have done it for ‘milennia’ (and I’ll take that assertion for granted, though I think an interesting tangential question would be whether or not spanking/corporal punishment for children was common in human families in 1000BC), does not mean that it’s right, and it certainly does not mean that evolution has lead to that behavior. Justifying it because people have ‘always done it’ is a pretty weak argument.