Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party

[Banquet_Bear]

@commasense

First, as I stated in my previous post, what I’m relying on to save me (and the country) are my own actions and those of millions of other patriotic Americans who are fighting back against this fascist regime.

…you are so fucking screwed.

@commasense

Trump is not merely a figurehead: he is a demagogue the likes of which this country has never seen.

He’s both.

And he has served his purpose.

It allowed MAGA to take a sledgehammer to the Federal government. To get control of the Supremes and much of the rest of the courts. Voter suppression is rampant. After decades of militarised police forces people are getting used to the idea of seeing troops on the streets.

@commasense

Tell me you truly believe that Project 2025 could have accomplished one tenth of what Trump has done so far if it weren’t for the fact that virtually every Republican in the country, and a fair number of Democrats, are terrified that the MAGA millions will will either primary them or physically attack them if Trump says the word.

A bunch of fucking cowards.

And here’s the thing: you aren’t going to punish anyone for it. Those Democrats terrified they would get primaried? You are going to vote for them again. And they will continue to act in their own best interests, not out of concern for their safety, but because it’s better for their wallet.

It doesn’t matter what theoretical you throw our way. It’s too late to debate what would have happened to Project 2025 if it weren’t for Trump.

It’s here now.

And if by some miracle the Democrats do somehow manage to get some measure of power back, they don’t have the spine to actually do anything with that power. USAID isn’t coming back. They will throw trans people under the bus. They will cheerfully continue to fund genocides overseas.

@commasense

Do you truly think that any other Republican will have that power once Trump is gone? Or that there will be that level of unity in the party?

I think you are asking the wrong questions. This hyperfixation on Trump is partly what lead to where we are right now. When Biden beat Trump last time, everybody relaxed. And do you know what’s going to happen next time if Trump or his replacement loses?

@commasense

But its authors wouldn’t have had a chance of getting most of it done without him because of the fanatical devotion MAGA has to him, and pretty much only him, IMHO.

The Supreme court didn’t fall overnight. It was part of a decades long plan to take it over. The refusal to vote on Obama’s nomination didn’t happen under Trump.

The Tea Party heralded the start of the MAGA cult. Its constantly evolving. It will evolve again. It won’t stop with Trump.

@commasense

Who do you think could take over as head of the Republicans and lead with Trump’s level of control?

Again: the wrong question.

I’ve said this over and over again: it isn’t enough just to oppose Trump. You’ve also got to give people something to vote for. You’ve got to recognise that MAGA or the Alt-Right or whatever it evolves into next is a threat that is never ever going to go away and that they have more money than you, control nearly all the institutions now, the media and the social media and the minute you give them an inch they will take a mile.

@commasense

Trump is a one-off, and once he is gone, at least some of the semi-sane Republicans who were too cowed to stand up to him may grow a spine and vote with the Dems to fix some of the chaos Trump has created. It won’t be quick or easy or cheap. But the utter failures and horrors of Trump’s policies will be plain to everyone, and all but a small minority of die-hards will support returning to some form of liberal democracy.

I’m 70, and I don’t expect to see it be completed in my lifetime, but I hope to see it start turning that way, and I hope to still be living in the U.S. when it happens.

These qualifications don’t matter.

Because they’ve dragged the Democrats along with them. Every Democrat in the senate voted for Marco Rubio. Hillary Clinton said she’d conditionally vote for Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize. You’ve got Democrat governors cheerfully posing for photos as they demolish homeless camps. They avoid saying anything that could even conceivably be considered “woke.” And they also posed for a photo with an indicted war criminal.

You are just assuming that the Democrats are going to fix some of the chaos Trump has created.

But outside the progressive wing (who actually have plans to fix the chaos) what is the actual Democrat grand vision? How are they planning to win back the Executive, the House and the Senate and get enough votes to actually be able to do anything?

There is a leadership vacuum with the Democrats. The establishment Dems don’t seem all that interested at all.

The reality is that the “utter failures and horrors of Trump’s policies” AREN’T plain to everyone. And “democracy” in America is skewed. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, intimidation, algorithms, the Electoral College, these are all things that mean in elections only a statistical handful of votes ever really matter.

The establishment Dems somehow manage to always forget this. So there isn’t just a leadership vacuum, there is a strategic one as well.

Which is why I said at the outset, you are so fucking screwed. You are in the trenches, covered in mud sweat and tears, outgunned and have been outflanked. You keep hoping the generals will be coming to your rescue. But the generals are having a tea-party in the Cotswolds.

The Democrats are not coming to save you.

You need better generals. But its probably too late for that.

[crowmanyclouds]

Reminder: “The Democrats suck.” and “but the genocide in Gaza” are Free Spaces on the Banquet_Bear Bingo card.

[Banquet_Bear]

…the Democrats DO suck.

And the Democrats just casually hanging with an indicted war criminal are one of the reasons why they suck.

[crowmanyclouds]

Damn it! I needed “The Dems need to nominate radical socialists to appeal to middle America” for a Bingo…

[Banquet_Bear]

…the Democrats need leadership, a vision, and some fight. I don’t give a damn if it’s “radical socialists” or not.

[Miller]

@Banquet_Bear

…you are so fucking screwed.

Ha, fuckin’ go off, dude! That post was a cinderblock to the face of that stupid asshole for daring to express any sort of optimism! That fuckin’ dipshit. Can you imagine someone having the fucking gall to express anything other than absolute defeatism and despair? What a dumb piece of shit! But you beat that spark of hope like Chris Brown beat Rihanna! Thank God we’ve got folks like you around to ground us when someone starts to think that there might be any solution to this problem that doesn’t involve just putting a gun in our mouths and blowing out the back of our fucking skulls.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Miller

Ha, fuckin’ go off, dude!

…this is the fucking pit. You of all people should know where we are.

This is where people fuckin’ go off dude.

That’s what this place is for.

This thread is really fucking weird.

Everybody got angry at madmonk28 because he doesn’t have it in him to fight any more. So I make a post that outlines ways that you can actually fight, that articulates a way forward that is more than just “hope” and “optimism”, and now people are getting angry at me.

We can’t sugarcoat how absolutely screwed we are. Not just in America. This is happening all over the world.

And we have to have a better plan than just waiting for Trump to be gone. If you don’t want to hear that: then perhaps the BBQ pit isn’t the right place for you.

It starts with accepting that the Democrats aren’t coming to save you. Again, this isn’t an American only thing. Look at what’s happening in the UK where the “left-leaning” Labour party is demolishing trans rights, pushing back on freedom of speech, digging in on austerity.

You’ve either got to fight and demand better from Democrat leadership, or do what Sultana and Corbyn have done in the UK and start a new movement. Neither will happen overnight. Neither will be an instant fix.

@Miller

that there might be any solution to this problem that doesn’t involve just putting a gun in our mouths and blowing out the back of our fucking skulls.

I’m suggesting getting better leadership. Coming up with a vision. And a strategy. Giving people something to vote for. Fighting every battle in the courts. Fighting every election, be it for the President of the United States or the local school board.

I’m suggesting that “reactive” strategies won’t work, and counting on the Republicans not having a replacement for Trump is a mistake. That much of the damage has already been done, that establishment Dems are unlikely to roll much of that back, so you need to get rid of the establishment Dems.

That’s a real big fucking distance from just “just putting a gun in our mouths and blowing out the back of our fucking skulls.”

Seriously: there is something broken in your brains in this thread. It’s like people are saying one thing, and people are reading it completely differently.

[Miller]

@Banquet_Bear

…this is the fucking pit. You of all people should know where we are.

This is where people fuckin’ go off dude.

It sure is! And if there’s one thing that deserves a thesis-length beatdown, it’s an expression of even the most tepid and conditional optimism! Teach that dumb motherfucker a lesson for thinking there’s the slightest chance things might get better!

[Banquet_Bear]

@Miller

It sure is! And if there’s one thing that deserves a thesis-length beatdown, it’s an expression of even the most tepid and conditional optimism! Teach that dumb motherfucker a lesson for thinking there’s the slightest chance things might get better!

…are you okay? Is your brain broken?

[Miller]

I live in America. Of course I’m not okay.

[dtilque]

This thread used to be entertaining. But I didn’t come here for a flamewar, even though this is the Pit. So unsubscribing.

[Maserschmidt]

Trump-supporting administration lawyer is angry that he was fired by some bad people in Pam Bondi’s group, and he asserts that - gasp! - they’re dishonest!

Former MAGA Attorney Goes Scorched Earth With Corruption Allegations In Antitrust Division - Above the Law

[ASL_v2.0]

Thank you. Thank you for getting us back on track.

[ricepad]

I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

[ASL_v2.0]

Well, yes, of course you’re going to go into shock if your face has just bitten off.

[GIGObuster]

@Banquet_Bear

The reality is that the “utter failures and horrors of Trump’s policies” AREN’T plain to everyone.

As I calculated before, progressives need to get about 3% of the ones that voted for Trump or from the ones that did not vote in the last election to get into power.

The recent polls now shows a huge lack of support for Trump and his policies more than the 3% one should try to get first, so much so that town halls from the Republicans are getting chants of “tax the rich!”.

As for the Democrats not being really liberal, you are very, very late on your dictates. One of the things madmonk28 said, the one you are white knighting now, is to propose that accelerationism should come, but that implies strongly that no one should fight anymore.

Fie to that.

(Just a note here because you keep on wondering why he got flack. Again, leaving has merit, just don’t toss a hand grenade to the ones that are willing to fight then)

The ones that are not aware that Democrats don’t expect or don’t like change are the ones that ignore history, Democrats (or even Republicans for that matter) will change gladly or with a bit of dislike (but still change) when the people are the ones who fight for change.

"Now Make Me Do It"

In 1932, Franklin Roosevelt won a landslide electoral victory. FDR’s win delivered a Democratic trifecta for the first time in more than a decade, just like we have now. But the economy was in shambles and fascism was on the rise globally. ** Shortly after his election, a labor leader visited FDR to ask for a big policy reform. FDR replied to the request, “I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.”

Ezra cautions that FDR’s landslide did not save America without a lot more work. His opponents cried “socialism!” Members of his own party urged caution. The Supreme Court fought back. But grassroots advocates pushed and prodded, and willed FDR’s agenda into existence, which led to Social Security, unemployment insurance, labor rights, and so much more. This massive progress is the legacy of the people-powered movements that shaped that era.

** Sounds familiar.

[Banquet_Bear]

@GIGObuster

One of the things madmonk28 said, the one you are white knighting now, is to propose that accelerationism should come,

…that wasn’t what they said.

They hold a well-founded belief that there is no coming back from where we are, that America as we know it will inevitably collapse, and that it would probably be better if that happened sooner than later because it will probably mean less people dead.

The way I read it they aren’t “proposing that accelerationism should come.” It’s a prediction. An observation. And if that prediction comes to pass, they think it’s better that it come quickly than to drag it out.

@GIGObuster

but that implies strongly that no one should fight anymore.

No it doesn’t. My outlook not just for America, but for the rest of the world, is somewhat equally grim. But that doesn’t mean I think people shouldn’t keep on fighting.

People are all at different “stages of grief”. Many are still in denial. Some have just hit angry. madmonk28 is at acceptance. People are emotional and either aren’t expressing themselves clearly enough, or people are reading too much into what they are saying. But I’d suggest to you that you are being extremely uncharitable of your read on madmonk28’s posts.

[GIGObuster]

@Banquet_Bear

They hold a well-founded belief

Not really, it is more naive and less realistic to ignore that… well, progressives and liberals already know that Democrats are sketchy, but they do listen when people fight.

@Banquet_Bear

The way I read it they aren’t “proposing that accelerationism should come.” It’s a prediction. An observation. And if that prediction comes to pass, they think it’s better that it come quickly than to drag it out.

Again, a way to say in reality: Don’t bother to fight.

@Banquet_Bear

No it doesn’t. My outlook not just for America, but for the rest of the world, is somewhat equally grim. But that doesn’t mean I think people shouldn’t keep on fighting.

And that is better than what madmonk28 said. You see, that was not hard. You are way better than him in this thread (And I do appreciate his contributions elsewhere in the SDMB, and I mean that, it is only in this thread where he is badly reading the room… if not the country.)

@Banquet_Bear

But I’d suggest to you that you are being extremely uncharitable of your read on madmonk28’s posts.

Nope, I showed how uncharitable he is with the ones that will fight. Again, leaving has merits and even I would had said it was OK, as long as he does not forget that in these days it is easier to contribute to democratic institutions in the US from other countries. Of course, it does remain still that fighting for our rights while in the US has more merit still.

[wguy123]

@ASL_v2.0

Thank you. Thank you for getting us back on track.

It didn’t last. Can we rename this thread to something like “you’re wrong, no you’re wrong” and start a new surprises for the LEFP thread? Let this trainwreck derailment of a thread continue on here?

Edit to add - I can see the future derailment post being typed out. This post will get drowned out by many more post that are NOT about this thread. Thanks B_B, Gb and others.

[GIGObuster]

@wguy123

It didn’t last. Can we rename this thread to something like “you’re wrong, no you’re wrong” and start a new surprises for the LEFP thread? Let this trainwreck derailment of a thread continue on here?

Edit to add - I can see the future derailment post being typed out. This post will get drowned out by many more post that are NOT about this thread.

FWIW I agree too, of course I will also concentrate on the surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party, the surprises also include the realization that they are also being bitten when the MAGAs find that they are not really in the majority or on the side of the law.