Ah yes, guilty until proven innocent.
Perhaps we should not make blanket statements that imply that we should always* believe anyone, neither accused nor accuser.
*I know you did not say “always”, but it is certainly implied in your wording.
(and sorry for the hijack, I’ll comment no further)
Women like, say, Crystal Gail Mangum?
As women, we listen to each other vent, and sincerely commiserate with each other all the time, even if that guy doesn’t personally bother us, or that situation wouldn’t personally make us cry. There was nothing odd about Missy or Elizabeth or any of the women talking together as they did about Dan, whether they privately shrugged him off or cried over him. It’s what we do. He’s an all-too-common type of pest.
Each woman and man (except for some men luxuriating in privileged oblivion) had their own reaction to Dan’s behavior and made choices balancing their feelings, ethics, and what they felt was good for their game. Some (Missy) got unfairly demonized for it. Some got a pass.
I don’t know who that is, but I assume you cherry-picked an example of somebody who made a false accusation to prove me wrong.
Fine. At least one woman has lied.
The “believe women” hashtag, or whatever you want to call it, is not about guilty until proven innocent. It’s about taking all allegations seriously, not dismissing victims as being hysterical or seeking revenge, and not intimidating women into not coming forward against powerful men.
And I agree this thread has been sidetracked enough. I’ll be bowing out of this aspect of the conversation as well.
They lied to Janet about Dan making them uncomfortable so Janet would vote for Dan, who at the time was Janet’s closest ally. This scene was intercut with their confessionals where they explicitly state that’s what they’re doing.
In other words, they jumped on the bandwagon to further their own agendas, which isn’t great messaging for a time when seemingly every man accused of impropriety is immediately followed by a group of women with similar complaints against him. (Harvey Weinstein, Louis CK, etc…) Up until now I always assumed the groups of women coming forward added credibility to their allegations. Now, though, I have this clear example from Survivor demonstrating that millenial women are seemingly quite comfortable jumping on the #MeToo bandwagon with false allegations just to further their own agenda, so the next time I see someone high profile accused and then a group of women comes forward with more, maybe I’ll be a little skeptical instead of assuming their stories are true.
Oddly, for me, this won’t change my assumptions regarding the first woman to come forward with allegations. But once an accusation is made, hey, blood in the water, safety in numbers, etc…
That’s not the part I have a problem with. It’s when they decided, after the commiserating, to make up their own #MeToo claims against Dan to manipulate Janet’s vote.
Is it possible that he just may be one whole Hell of a lot more conniving than anyone has ever figured him for? Is it possible that Dan (who used to be a lawyer) has come up with some clever plan to make himself very famous and very wealthy too? Could it be that he has figured out a way that he can get good tables at any L.A. restaurant that he wants?
Suppose he’s been looking around at all the trends today - starting with Harvey Weinstein and the “Me Too” movement. Suppose he figures that as a result of getting himself kicked off this TV show, he can make himself extremely famous and wealthy by maybe writing a book or a play or a movie?
I wonder. I wonder if Dan is already extremely famous and wealthy?
Is it possible that he has come up with some kind of plan where he really can’t be sued for anything too terribly serious and maybe he figures that he cannot be charged with any crime that is too serious for the kind of touching he has done. I wonder if he just might come out of this with a whole lot more money and fame than anyone ever expected he would get by winning this game? Of course his wife would have had to be in on this plan right from the beginning.
I wonder if the title of his book might be, “How I Single-Handedly killed Survivor and Survived with $10 million.” Surely that could never happen. Could it?
Missy was uncomfortable with Dan, and said so even before the merge. In episode 7, she is talking to Tommy, Lauren and Elizabeth and calls being near Dan the ‘danger zone’ and grabs Tommy’s chest to illustrate what Dan does. They are laughing about it, but that doesn’t mean she is okay with it. People talk like it was just Dan and Kellee, but it wasn’t.
Yes, she used her feelings, and her knowledge of others’ feelings, as a strategy. Maybe people don’t like that. I didn’t really like it when Adam used his dying mother to get votes in Millennials vs Gen X, but it’s a thing people do for a million dollars.
And yeah, she was smart enough to not try defend herself on social media when the internet blew up at her, and now she has the joy of having to process her experience while the world makes up their own judgments and narratives about her. I don’t really like her much, but I do feel sorry for the position she is in, and how everyone’s need for a simple story has condemned her so absolutely.
I was thinking about this, while listening to NPR and “Wait wait, dont tell me”. On that show we have a panel of three celebrities who answer questions about this weeks news, often with humor. They also play games with listeners, and one is “Bluff the Listener” where two of the panel make up lies and one tells the truth , the listener is supposed to spot the true story. Paula Poundstone is a frequent panelist and is a expert bluffer. Should I believe Paula on this game, because she is a woman? Of course not, that’s ridiculous, since it’s a game and they are encouraged to lie.
Survivor is a game and they are encouraged to lie. They lie about dead grandmas, personal tragedies, etc- all to win a $million bucks.
Now I agree that this is a little different, but Missie and Elizabeth lied - because it was a game and they wanted to win a $million bucks. They will argue that lying about Dan and touching is just part of the game. I disagree, but I can see where they are coming from. Does that mean I dont believe Kelee? No, I am pretty sure she’s not lying, since the tapes back her up. But still, since it IS a game, where they can & do lie their asses off, I can only say “I am pretty sure …” and here,* in this game show*,“Believe women”- while laudable and a truism IRL- doesnt hold.
After 39 seasons it’s just not cool to say nice things about this show. But I gotta say that I liked this season. First season I liked in a long time.
Of course there were some exceptions. I would have been fine without Rob and Sandra. Although it would have been nice to have heard from Amber - even maybe just one sentence?
And Nooura? (however the Hell she spells her name). I don’t understand people who have common names like Norah or Bill but then spell their names in crazy ways. Although spelling her name in a crazy way kind of fits Crazy Noorah. Several times during the last TC, when Crazy Norah was touching Loren’s arm and trying to console her, I just wanted Loren to yell at her, "Get your hands off me, Crazy Lady! You told me I’m your Number One and then you stiffed me? Just Go straight to Hell! And don’t ever talk to me again!
Looks like season 40 is going to be massive!
Crap. Sandra and Rob AGAIN??? What the hell, do they have dirty pix of Probst?
Noura is an Arabic/Muslim name.
Unsurprising winner given how the edit had been, but I admit at the end I was thinking Dean had a solid chance (Noura was obviously going to get zero votes). He really came on strong at the end, and dang if he didn’t show some passion in that final TC. But at the same time, I think Tommy winning is fine… he played an entirely social game, which tends not to be as liked by fans of the show but I think part of that is because it doesn’t translate as well to TV. It’s easy to show strategy, challenge wins and Big Movez, harder to show people connecting with everyone.
I was really surprised they actually brought up the Dan thing in the reunion, but they probably figured (rightfully) there was no way they could just flat-out ignore it. Seems like they put Kellee on the spot, it’ll be interesting to see if she says anything more down the road. And of course if there is any actual litigation between Dan and CBS (though even if there is I bet it’ll settle one way or another with a load of NDAs).
Most interesting part to me was Probst admitting that some of the players told production “yeah we know it was Dan, but we’re purposely keeping him around as a zero-vote goat to take to the end.” Survivor has always been a social experiment, and I’d say the lesson learned from this season is that yeah, people will put up and use #MeToo type stuff to help win $1m. Which shouldn’t be surprising.
Definitely looking forward to the all-winners S40, even if they’re gonna ruin it with Edge of Extinction again.
I really enjoyed this.
I really liked Tommy having to search out the clues to get it. Sucks about being color-blind, which probably wasn’t factored in, but I miss the times when idols required searching, and hunting - like Elaine having to get it at the competition.
I also loved when the entire jury shut Nora down when she started her rambling… she should have noted it, and seen that her verbosity was a big turn-off for most people.
I think Dean could have made an amazing move if he’d used the immunity idol on Tommy, which would have been a great power move for tribal council discussion.
And I loved, LOVED that the fake Legacy advantage came back around as a point of discussion.
I really enjoyed this season, minus the Dan stuff.
I think the producers completely screwed up by not getting rid of Dan immediately. Sure, they may have never removed a player on Survivor before, but hell, it’s been almost 20 years since Big Brother removed a contestant for threatening a player with a knife. Of course, I think BB may have had live feeds back then, so the outrage was immediate. But that’s all the more reason to review the footage and interview players and production crew right away on Survivor.
I must say that the ultimate couple of episodes redeemed the show quite a bit. Dean pulling all those advantages out and Tommy, perceived as the goat, winning it.
Poor Noora , she did TERRIBLE at the jury questions, she let Tommy and dean do all the talking, except one time she started off on a crazy rant and they shut her down.
Kitap, Thank you for explaining that. I had no idea.
I would also like to explain that it doesn’t really change the way I feel about her. I have contempt for her because she is a froot loop - not because of her heritage.
I Liked here, but I am not sure I wanna be on her team.
Not the Final Three I was hoping for, but I was satisfied with the outcome. Tommy played a solid, smart game, even if it wasn’t splashy.
I did think Dean had a legit shot, though, and that the vote would be closer. It was pretty clear where Aaron’s vote was going, and everybody else was harder to read. Dean did come off a bit cocky and overly emotional at TC; I wonder if that cost him some votes.
But my favorite part was how happy and excited Dean was when it became clear Tommy was going to win. In that moment I liked him more than I had the entire season.
The handling of the Dan controversy was a bit of a mixed bag. I thought it was a good thing that Probst publicly acknowledged that they didn’t handle the situation well at the time, even calling himself out on specific missteps, and that stronger policies are in place for future seasons.
But I agree that they kind of put Kellee on the spot. She was clearly very nervous and probably didn’t come off as eloquently as she wanted to. That’s not a knock on her, it’s completely understandable; I just hope the point she was trying to make didn’t get lost in her nerves. (Kinda wish Sia had given her a few bucks while she was passing it around.)
Overall, of course there’s a cloud hanging over this whole season (hopefully one with a silver lining like Probst said), and I was ready to write it off entirely. But it got interesting toward the end, and I was OK with the winner. Not the best season ever, but not the worst.
Sia gave $100K to Elaine and $100K to Janet but only $15K to Jamal.
If I was Jamal, I must admit, I would not be happy. I know it’s free money. But I also know that I’d be crying the blues and asking, “Why do I only deserve 15 percent as much as the other two people?”
I gotta say that it just seems wrong to me to give these three people such greatly different amounts. Does it seem wrong to you?
Maybe you think that I should just shut up and be happy to get a free gift. But if you were Jamal, how would you feel about it?