So I have no idea what kind of contracts the players sign, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s called out in them that they will be provided with revealing clothing and that they’re OK knowing that anything they do will be shown on screen. Note that Karishma does usually cover up, and only stripped down one time to fit in with the other women - which may have been a problem on it’s own, but wasn’t anything she was forced to do by the producers. So if everyone is informed & consents to how they’re going to be shown on screen, I don’t see a problem with it. It’s perfectly possible and non-hypocritical to produce a swimsuit calendar, while still having strict rules about not touching the models.
Last night’s episode was just nasty, disturbing TV. Liz and Missy are awful, awful people and the entire tribe’s gaslighting of Janet horrible to watch play out. This was a perfect example of why I get so fed up with other people that are willing to be FAKE and LIE no matter what.
All that being said, I still don’t know exactly how to interpret their behavior. (Both versions are awful)
Either:
Missy and Liz are truly bothered by Dan’s disgusting behavior. But when faced with a choice of confronting Dan and turning on him, they would rather stick to what is better for their game, so they deny that it’s a real problem publicly and gaslight Janet, telling her it’s all her fault for making a big fuss.
Or:
Missy and Liz are not bothered by Dan’s disgusting behavior. They are happy to play along with it as long as it benefits their game. But given the chance to pretend it DID bother them, to bond with some other women in their tribe, they decided to play pretend and take this girl’s SERIOUS CONCERNS about abusive behavior and PRETEND that “yes I have the same problem with him”
Either way, it’s despicable behavior, but I am not sure which one is really going on.
You’re not wrong, in that I think that one of these is the most likely interpretation, and both are very gross.
But there is a more charitable one that goes something like this:
Missy and Liz know these facts:
(a) Kellee has a plan to vote out Missy, which plan includes Janet (I think…)
(b) Kellee had a long conversation with Missy about how Dan’s behavior bothers her, but from what we saw that conversation was at least somewhat light-hearted (certainly way more light-hearted than the Kellee’s pained confessional)
(c) Janet then approaches Liz saying that they are going to vote out Dan to help the girls out and remove the problem
I think it’s possible that Missy and Liz just flat-out think Kellee and Janet are lying about the plan to vote out Dan. They think that Kellee is trying to pretend that she is skeeved out by Dan, or at least is exaggerating her concerns, to convince Missy that she is safe. And she enlisted Janet to help with that plot. Missy thinks Kellee is straight-up lying to her face by pretending to be her friend.
So I guess I can see Missy and Liz thinking not “I will pretend to be offended by Dan to blindside Kellee” (your choice B) and more “I will pretend not to know that Kellee and Janet are lying to me about being so offended by Dan they want to vote him out, in order to blindside Kellee”. It’s still pretty bad, considering the subject matter, but perhaps a bit more understandable.
I do think it’s pretty clear from what we’ve seen, and what the cast has said in confessionals, that only Kellee had serious concerns about Dan’s behavior. Janet’s response was primarily in response to Kellee and Liz telling her how they felt. And it is important to at least acknowledge that there are types of actions and behaviors that one woman would find “weird, somewhat unwelcome, but not enough to make me say anything” but that another woman would find much further along the spectrum. I think the non-Kellee women fell more in the first category. That said, it’s also scummy of Dan to take advantage (seemingly) of that gray area to have unwanted physical contact with women.
Wow, what a crazy pair of episodes.
Certainly shocked that Kellee went from seeming like the top player in the game to immediately out, with another strong player in Jamal following. Of course, one could say it took a pretty crazy situation for that to happen. But oh Kellee, why or why couldn’t you have just played one of your idols?
I agree that Elizabeth and Missy definitely come out of this looking the worse. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they actually weren’t offended by Dan’s touchy-feelyness - different people are comfortable with different things. But they also clearly were fine with twisting it to their advantage in a game sense, which really screwed over Janet.
Dan, I don’t think he does it ‘on purpose’ and there’s not a sexual component to it, which is probably why he thinks it’s fine. But he clearly doesn’t understand and respect personal boundaries, and he lost any respect I had left when he acted like it was all no big deal after they had a meeting with the producers and got warned. At that point the light bulb should turn on. Same with Aaron too for his comments at TC.
This definitely put a big damper on what had been a good season up to this point. I’m not really sure who to root for at this point… Elaine maybe? I dunno. I also lack any good guesses for who will win. Certainly strong players will get voted out early as threats, but usually when you get to the merge you can start figuring out who’s a goat and who’s in the driver’s seat. I had Tommy as a pick because he seemed to be getting good face time but that’s kinda fallen off a bit. Maybe next episode will be a big reset and pull things into focus.
Lots of apologies on Twitter: https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/14/survivor-elizabeth-beisel-missy-byrd-apology/
Aaron as well: https://twitter.com/acm_fitness/status/1195042884065648641?s=21
The apologies are great and all, but I’m still having a tough time with the “I had no idea things were as bad as they actually were” excuse. Specifically because the producers met with the players as a group, and individually, to make sure everyone felt safe and comfortable in the game and to remind them of personal boundaries and that the producers are available to them at any time. If that wasn’t a wakeup call to Elizabeth & Missy that something real was going on, then at best they’re not too bright.
ETA: I’m fairly certain I’m done with the season. The thought of seeing Dan discussing strategy with Missy & Elizabeth makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
True.
But what I found much more nauseating was Dan’s “I never knew there was a problem” act at Tribal Council. He’d been specifically, individually, officially warned by the production. On top of that Kellee had at least twice told him straight to stop touching her and apparently Lauren had directly told him off, too.
And he sits there going, whoa, there’s a problem? Nobody ever complained to me, I’ve never had any problems with women, I’m just a poor misunderstood victim.
(And there’s Aaron offering his sympathy to poor, poor Dan who has had his reputation tainted! He can take his Alpha Male privilege off and die, too.)
You’ll notice who hasn’t issued any kind of apology or acknowledgement of his actions.
Oh absolutely StarvingbutStrong. I addressed that above as well. But I’m sure Dan is a practiced liar and very experienced with the “No one ever told me anything was wrong! You’re going to ruin my life with your accusations!” defense, regardless of previous incidents. I’m not surprised in the slightest that he used it. But Elizabeth & Missy claiming they didn’t know, and Probst backing them up on that, in the face of the special production meeting for this very topic - that’s a little more surprising.
I don’t really know what more can be said about how disgusting and disappointing that was. I was rooting for Elizabeth since the beginning. Now, other than Janet, there’s nobody really left I want to win.
Anyway, I wonder what the best way to play Jamal’s advantage would be. My thought would be create an “idol reveal” advantage. Go to the beach, say this advantage makes it so everyone who has an idol must immediately reveal it, or it won’t work the next tribal. I think it’s just realistic enough that people will think it’s real.
Elizabeth’s apology is too little too late. “I didn’t realize how serious it was”. You’re part of the problem in society, Liz.
Aaron’s apology seemed much more sincere and real, and I think his ignorance about the situation is more understandable. He was outside of the circle of women discussing the Dan problems.
Dan’s comments at TC were exactly how an abuser always responds. Huh? Who me? I had no idea there was a problem. And then he proceeds to play it off like his touching is just to squeeze by people while grabbing Elizabeth’s shoulder … he sucks. The show should remove him.
Jamal’s fake advantage seemed impossible to use effectively. Handwriting on paper will never be accepted as legitimate by another contestant. All the real notes are printed.
I think what I would have done with it is write a note from the perspective of a recently-voted-off contestant that is gifting the recipient with an unused special immunity idol after being voted off. Then enclose a fake immunity idol. That might play. But a handwritten note by itself? No chance.
So I posted on the part of the CBS website specifically for comments on shows last week. I told them I’ve missed fewer than 10 episodes since the first season of Survivor, but I’m not going to watch the rest of this season because I’m so disgusted with the remaining players, the producers, and Probst, both what happened in the show and their responses after it aired. I also told them that if there isn’t some future statement/action on the part of the producers*, I won’t be watching any future seasons either. No reply.
*I realize that the entire season was filmed months ago, so clearly anything that any consequences for Dan have already happened, or more correctly have not happened. But I do expect them to make a public apology and statement admitting how poorly they handled the situation as it occurred, and plans to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Sexy is one thing, *Sexual harassment *is another. Most people like sexy.
I think she once said she doesnt like to be touched. By anyone. If so, wrong show for her.
In Survivor, there is a lot of physical contact. Period.
During challenges, sure. As far as I can tell, neither Kellee nor anybody else has expressed any concern over that type of physical contact.
But when a guy has his hands all over you at camp for no reason, and keeps doing it after you’ve told him multiple times to stop, it isn’t just the “wrong show for her.” She was clearly being sexually harassed by any currently understood definition of the term.
You could just tell Kellee was seething over the conversation at the second Tribal. I really thought she was going to speak up, but apparently the rule against jury members talking was more important than anything she wanted to say. Too bad, if you ask me; I would have liked to see her call out some of her tribemates’ behavior.
I agree Dan was inappropriate with Kellee. But without blankets, people spoon for warmth.
And that game has a weird set of circumstances.
No, she said that everyone assumed that she doesn’t like to be touched, because she asked Dan to stop touching her. But she didn’t like being touched by Dan, because he’s a creep.
And don’t buy into Dan’s “I’m sorry if I brushed past you during a challenge, I’m sorry if I rolled against you while we were trying to stay warm in the shelter” bullshit. There were instances on camera of him touching Kellee and others for no other reason than he likes to put his hands on young women. Why would he run his hands across Kellee’s face while talking to her? Why would he reach out and stroke someone’s (Missy?) ankle why he’s laying on the ground?
That still requires consent, though.
We have seen like 1/100 of the time they were on.
Are you implying that Kellee consented to all the touching and that was edited out?