What matters are the facts. Donating to Planned Parenthood doesn’t support abortion (unless you specifically want your donations to go to that service) and Komen wasn’t supporting abortion by funding Planned Parenthood. People can refuse to donate to Planned Parenthood because PP eats pixies if they like - it’s their right. However it’s incorrect and completely wrong, and deserves to be called out as such.
Marley23:
Really? Even if the funds are so segregated as not to pay the doctors and nurses that actually perform the abortions, doesn’t Planned Parenthood also advocate for abortion rights, both in civic activism and in the courtroom? By giving money to an organization that publicly and vocally supports abortion rights, even if you request that your funds not be used for those, it certainly frees up part of their operating budget to put toward abortion support.
Since there’s a direct inverse relationship between accurate and in-depth sex ed, availability of contraception and the rate of abortions, it’s hard for me to take seriously people who claim to be pro-life and against PP.
Granted, I think it does.
“It frees up money for other stuff” is a nonsense argument. They don’t write a new budget every time someone cuts a check.
Now that you’ve got the answer you want, how about you be honest as well? How about admit that it doesn’t matter to you if PP was really doing abortions or not, that the very fact they are associated with it means that you need to take them down in the eyes of the public, that you’ll use slander and misrepresentation to make it seem like PP does all abortions, all the time. That your ultimate goal of no abortions is so fanatically important to you that you don’t care if women are ultimately harmed by it, and neglected and abused children born, just because you feel abortion trumps all that? And that even still, you have no idea how biology works and you get all your talking points from some right wingers and could not articulate a rational defense of your position if your life depended on it? Can you be honest about that?
Marley23:
Of course they don’t. But do they have an “abortion budget” after which, when it is reached, they turn away people who come to them for abortions? I’m sure that they cover such shortfalls with a flexible general fund, or they borrow, or in some other fashion. Giving earmarked money to Planned Parenthood just means that more “flexible” funding is budgeted toward the other matters.
Here’s a thought experiment: PP goes over their year’s budget for abortion services before the year is out, and has to take out a loan to provide abortions to later patients. When the next year’s budget has a line item that says “loan servicing” might a check that said “not for abortions” be used for that?
The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (the organization that provides health services) is a 501(c)3 and is not permitted to lobby. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund, a registered 501(c)4, is the separately incorporated, funded and operated political arm of PP that lobbies and advocates in courts.
In other words you’re assuming they are lying and breaking their own rules based on nothing because you believe that’ll provide some moral cover. 
This is not that complicated: money that is not donated to PP specifically to pay for abortion costs cannot be used to pay for abortions. This is not that complicated. In this situation they would have several options: they could raise more money from donors for this specific purpose, they could borrow money for this specific purpose, or they could take some money that would have gone to cover abortions the next year. I assume they don’t just turn the fundraising on and off.
Except it doesn’t; see above. The whole point of earmarking money is that it can only be used for the agreed-upon purpose. That’s what earmarking is.
Darn, so close.
Exactly.
If you want fewer abortions, fund PP who prevent vastly more unwanted pregnancies than they abort.
If you want to feel morally smug about opposing abortion at the expense of harming women and increasing the number of unwanted pregnancies, oppose PP.
Marley23:
I was not assuming they were lying. I was assuming that unspecified general donations could be put to abortion purposes. I was not aware that donations needed to specifically say “for abortion” to be used for abortions. If this is indeed the case, then I totally retract what I said. I was simply assuming that as long as it was not earmarked for non-abortion purposes, it could be used for abortion.
They can’t. Only money that is specifically donated for the purpose of covering abortion costs can be used for that purpose. I think they raise that money from private donors rather than through general campaigns. They take these kinds steps specifically to accommodate people who are morally opposed to abortion but recognize the importance of providing other health and reproductive-related services for poor women. As I was saying earlier, you can see what they’ve gotten for their trouble: the right decided they’re a good political target and an abortion provider that needs to be stomped out at all costs, and they’ve been ignoring the facts and lying to accomplish that end.
And just to be clear, I’m talking about Republican politicians, not people in this thread.
No problem.
Am I fanatical about not supporting organizations that kill children? You bet your fuckin’ ass I am. What’s more, any person who’s not fanatical about it and that would donate to an organization that, in their minds, does that, even if the money will not even in the most indirect of ways fund it, is morally deficient an unable to lecture me about morality.
There we have it: compromising on one issue to help deal with another issue you consider important makes you “morally deficient.” Even if your contribution would not in any way support anything you consider wrong.
Compromise on child-killing? Nope, not a little.
If I want to help women’s health I know, at least in my country, non-baby-killing oranizations that can get money.
Are you laboring under the assumption that PPH provides abortions for free?
They do not. The pill is almost $500.00 and a medical abortion costs anywhere from $500- $2,500.00 depending on the gestation. The fee must be paid in full prior to the service and there may be additional lab fees. There is a very small amount of financial aid to those who are uninsured, but the client has to bring documentation to prove that.
Abortion is only about 3% of PPH’s services and the women who are getting the abortion pay for them.
The bulk of their services is in providing annual well-woman exams (including pap and breast exams, and also diagnosing and treating those with abnormal papas), birth control pills and emergency contraception, vasectomies, testicular cancer screens, HPV vaccines, HIV and other STD testing, treatment for the more common STDs, UTI treatment (common in women, but not in men), treatments for menopause and sexual health education information. They have about 4 million visits a year making them the largest provider of women’s healthcare in the country.
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Not in all cases, but I was of the belief that they offer subsidized options to people who can’t afford the ordinary full fees, as do many hospitals, clinics and other health care providers.
Of course, this is not actually a compromise on child killing. Great soundbyte, though!
Well, bub, this is America. The only thing that drives women’s health policy is trying to kill organizations liberals like.
If he is, that’s my fault. I was under the impression they did do that (via donations) for some women.
But wait! Think about this hypothetical! What if, just what if, there was a group that helped women, not with abortions, follow me here, but with things like mammograms and pap smears? And and this organization, was like, reeeeaaaaally dedicated to helping especially poor women, women who can’t just go to their doctors to do these things! And that all of this was paid through a combination of private and public funds!! And here’s the best part, some of what they do might involve abortions, but all of those funds for mammograms and stuff like that aren’t even allowed to touch! Like, physically, the money for abortions must be kept in a separate bank account and must be held at least 50 feet away from the pap smear, birth control, and mammogram money at all times! Forever! And there’s another good part too! What if, just listen for a second, what if…the organization actually did things that had nothing to do with abortions to LOWER abortions overall! What if they are saving kids and women by providing education, and infomercials and brochures and seminars and freaking birth control that, and you can look this up(!!!) that actually isn’t an abortion at all but prevents one from being necessary in the future! And that without this organization, again the same one we’re talking about, there would be MORE abortions and more death to fetuses overall! Oh…what if! What if such an organization exists?!? Wouldn’t that be great?? One that tries to stop abortion using non-dickish methods! Methods like education and birth control??! Methods that actually WORK!? Would you then support them? And remember, this is KNOWING that if you didn’t, overall abortions would go up like Superman’s erection??
Yeah, I tried that argument in shorter form in #309. It’s the principle of the thing, you know? Better that there be more actual abortions than that you might be seen to support them. I mean, what would [del]the neighbors[/del] Jesus say?
If he was as smart as others make him out to be, I hope he says “WTF is wrong with you people??”