Sure, but Oklahoma’s a pretty safe Republican area. The two current senators from Oklahoma is Republican. This guy, as the Republican nominee, has a very good chance of winning the vacant seat, though apparently the Democrats are talking about their hopes of winning it (though don’t they always say that?).
You see? This is exactly what I’m driving at. Your rights aren’t being chipped away! Gay people currently have more rights and more acceptance in this country than they’ve ever had. (And more than they’ve had generally thoughout all the nations and socities of the world’s history.)
But you’re so filled with bile and hatred that you can’t see that. Trust me, if it weren’t for the polical process we have in this country, which does and must contain people like Coburn on any given issue, your only recourse would be to stay in the closet, or to engage in violence…as your tone suggests is highly likely. And trust me, the only way to get where you want to be is by gaining public acceptance through the passage of time and by letting the political system run its course. Try the knocking heads approach (which I’m aware I brought into the discussion, not you, although again the tone of the posters to this thread make it seem plausible) and you’ll get your head handed to you.
EW. scrubs self frantically
Don’t do that.
You know that, and I know that, but has anybody told Bush that? Evidence seems to indicate the contrary.
My point is still valid: Don’t get worked up about things that have yet to happen, as in the OPs little extrapolation.
And no, I don’t like this guy and I didn’t vote for him in the primary. I would hope that as news of his strange views makes news more and more news in this state, that he’ll find himslef on the curb come November.
As I stated earlier, this is the first news item I’ve even seen about this stuff. I saw nothing like this before the primary. Hopefully, the news will spread before Election Day.
FYI: I am relatively Conservative. This guy is nutters.
Delete a few extra words and it’s still a good post!
[gets up to pour another shot]
Jesus. You know why gays have more rights in this country then they ever have before? Because they got pissed off and started speaking up! It took a motherfucking riot before anyone in this country even realized that gay rights was an issue! They only way to hold onto the rights they have now, the only way to secure the rights gays currently lack, is to be as loud as possible in denouncing biggoted fucks like Tom Coburn at every opportunity. If they don’t, then the fucks are going to win this, and gays are going to be stripped of whatever meager advances they’ve made in the last thirty years, and possibly more besides. If they sit quiet and wait for the political process to run its course, it’s going to run them straight back into the closet, and then it’ll nail the fucking door shut.
Nobody ever gave anyone any rights. The only way to get them is to fight for them.
There was gay rioting?
Yup, it was called Stonewall, 1969.
And just for the record, and contrary to appearances…I really do know how to spell “until,” eventually," and “societies.”
Thank yuh, thank yuh vurra much…
And there was also the White Night Riot in '79.
I understand your point, Miller (and SolGrundy), but it’s one thing to stand up and be strong and to fight for what’s right, and it’s another to be so filled with hatred and venom that you can’t even think straight. That’s how this tread appeared to be going. (And just so you’ll know, I’m not saying you should sit back politely and just let things happen. But I am saying these things take time, the system is working in your favor, and a certain amount of patience is required until things get to where they need to be.)
Sure, activism is required. It’s what has brought things this far. But activism and militancy are not the same thing. Activism will almost always bring positive change over time. Militancy brings either quick victory or quick defeat, and I think defeat would be the result in case. And besides, people are less effective when they’re mad. Muhammad Ali knew this and he used this as a tactic in his fights. He called Liston ugly, Frasier a gorilla, Foreman a dope, etc. and tormented them mercilessly. By the time the fight came around they were filled with so much embarrassment, hate and anger that it greatly lessened their ability to fight effectively.
So all I’m saying is that things are going your way, so be glad and keep fighting the good fight. But keep it in perspective and don’t let hate and anger blind you to the progress that’s being made and/or prompt you to action or a point of view that is self-defeating.
IMHO, that is. 
Tell that to the gay people in Holland. Or much of Canada. Or any of the dystopian nightmare societies that have legalized gay marriage and are now suffering under the Pink Iron Fist of the Gay Agenda.
Sure, America does seem to be, for the most part, better now about the perception of gays than it has been in the past. People have shown more respect for homosexuals by changing from pointing and yelling “pervert” to pointing and yelling “I don’t personally agree with your lifestyle choice!” Great strides.
And the only way you could think that our rights aren’t being chipped away is if you think that the right to marriage is something that society has to grant to homosexuals. That we’re asking for special treatment, or asking to be allowed to crash some straights-only party. That it’s not a right that every person is born with. That the gay couples in Missouri weren’t just recently told that their love was invalid and not as deserving as heterosexual love.
Right. As anyone who knows me personally will attest, I am a seething cauldron of pent-up violence just ready to erupt. Sorry if I frightened you, but you see, I’m a homo, so it’s not much of a threat. Worst I’m going to do is throw something at you, and of course I’ll miss, because I didn’t play enough catch with dad.
But I’m calmer now, and I can see the tremendous improvements the political process of this country have made, and how I’m threatening all of that by speaking up and saying, “Uh, guys? That’s not fair.” I’m bringing about this horrible alternate reality, in which my only recourse would be to stay in the closet! I can’t even imagine what that would be like!
Unless, of course, I were to think back to the last twelve fucking years of my life. During which I watched all my friends get married and start families because they’re all “normal.” Which I spent most of the time either desperately trying to “cure” myself or in a state of depression that convinced me the only way out would be to commit suicide. Which I spent listening to the bullshit of people like Coburn and became so convinced that there was something fundamentally wrong with me, some inherent weakness, that meant I didn’t deserve to be happy. Years during which I got to be so convinced that homosexuality was evil and sinful that I would have my straight friends calling me out for being a homophobe, and I’d go home convinced I was unloveable AND a bigot.
So apart from that, yeah, you’re exactly right. I’m just being impatient. I suggest that a paranoid bigot whose conception of homosexuality ignores all the improvements made in the past thirty years, might not be the best choice for a council on AIDS and HIV, and all of a sudden I’m a gay Malcolm X.
And you see, this is what I’m talking about. Some people are allowed to spew homophobic bullshit and it’s all just a natural part of the political process. I say that that’s unacceptable and call bullshit for what it is, and that’s “violent” and “extremist.” Because, you know, saying that two people in love should be allowed to get married – that’s just fucking XTREME.
I also did a Google search and [url=“http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/864/864_coburn.asp”]here is another article about Coburn**. Granted, it’s from The Advocate, which is far from being the most unbiased of news sources, but they tend to be the only ones who pay attention to this issue.
Coburn is quoted as saying some things that make a lot of sense. Monogamy is good – sure, I’m all for that. Abstinence is the only 100% guaranteed way to avoid HIV and other STDs – that’s a fact. If you have HIV, you have a responsibility not to pass it to others – absolutely without a doubt, no question. So what’s the problem, SolGrundy? Why you gotta be such a hater?
Because he says things that are bigoted, outdated, show a complete ignorance of the past thirty years of the gay rights movement, a fundamental lack of respect for homosexuals, and a total lack of understanding of what it means to be a homosexual.
Some of Coburn’s quotes from the article:
So, what have we learned? Homosexuals are “sinners” who have chosen a “lifestyle choice” and can choose not to be gay. Plus, from his statements earlier in the article, you can hear the implication that gays are inherently more promiscuous and less inclined to monogamy and safe sexual behavior than heterosexuals are. Boom boom boom. Over thirty years of trying to educate people, straight down the toilet.
And what have I learned from this thread? That it’s an acceptable part of the gradual political process to call me a sinner, say that I’ve chosen this miserable life for myself, I could be normal if I just tried harder, and I’m more at risk of life-threatening diseases because I’m such a horny pervert. And that it’s unacceptable and extremist and “violent” to say that that’s bullshit.
That closet is looking better and better all the time.
And the worst thing about those homos is they can’t code correctly.
Which is bad enough, my fine duckling, but not what got the old panties in a wad.
It’s the co-chairmanship of the freakin’ AIDS/HIV council that gave me the freakin’ frisson of fear and loathing.
I mean, WTF??? :eek:
that part was hyperbole on the part of the OP
Um, I’d say you have that backwards. What rights have been won have had to be fought for, painfully, over years of being reviled and rebuffed. Opponents of those rights chip away at them with crowbars and jackhammers at every opportunity.
Well, we wouldn’t be so gosh-darned venomous and bile-bloated if we weren’t under attack as subhuman perverts bent on destroying America, now, would we? As to “must contain”… hell, no. Not if people can be educated to see that us fags and dykes and such are just plain folks and no threat, and that the Coburns of this world are the ones generating all the corrosive hatred.
Dumpling, I can remember way back when the “Help Wanted” ads were segregated by sex. Us wimmin didn’t get that and other unequal treatment uprooted by smiling sweetly as the men in charge patted us on the head and informed us we’d get another pretty little rightlet when it suited them to grant it.
Holy shit!
Wouldaben nice to link to that in the OP, OP! it read like hyperbole, since the Oklahoma Gazette article was what was linked and it wasn’t mentioned in there.
That’s like putting a NAZI sympathiser in charge of Jews.
Thank you for the link.
No, it wasn’t. Read the article I linked to. If you’d rather not have The Advocate in your web history, here are the relevant bits:
For the record, unless I’ve been seriously misreading his other posts all this time, Miller is not gay. He just takes a stand on the issue – excuse me – he just gets all militant on the issue without having to preface it by making sure that everyone knows that he’s heterosexual.
And you know, it’d be nice if there were more of that. More people acknowledging that this isn’t just gays acting out of self-interest, but people pointing out how other people’s rights are being infringed on. It’d be nice if we didn’t get a little pat on the head and were condescendingly told to keep fighting the good fight and let us all know how that all turns out, okay?