Gays are oppressed, I’m straight. Women are oppressed, I’m a guy.
People of color are oppressed, I’m white. Latinos are oppressed, I’m Anglo Ugly people are oppressed, and I’m stunningly handsome.
I wish I’d know all this earlier in my life, I could have started feeling bad a lot sooner.
You are the conformist who believes in the concept of ‘normal’ and I’m the idiot?
You wouldn’t deny, you just wouldn’t help.
I don’t, based on your posts. Some Dopers get a little hysterical at times.
However, I don’t agree with all your points, either. True, violence and reverse bigotry are bad, too, but being silent will never your rights guaranteed in this system of government.
Speaking out is the way to do it. But, not being militant or violent. That just alienates the middle ground. You can be firm for your interests without being a dickweed. That goes for anyone.
This makes no sense. Make it so? What? I’m not worried that if Coburn says enough lies about gays they’ll suddenly come true. I’m just concerned about the lying part.
Oh, come on. That’s hair splitting. The idea that terrorism is a threat to our freedoms has been a constant mantra of the right… hell, of both sides, everyday since 9/11. No way in hell was Coburn not aware of that when he made that statement. No chance.
I don’t think I’m being ridiculous at all. I think that’s an absolutely legitimate interpretation of his words. Anyone else reading this, am I wrong? Is that not an obvious, or at least plausible, subtext to that statement?
Well, shit, I don’t want to drive you from the thread. Assuming you check back here, I’ll ask again: what would your reaction be if someone accused you, or a group with which you identify, as being the biggest threat to American freedom today? How would you respond to such an allegation? What would be the productive thing to do? Ignore it? Let the libel slide, even though you know that there’s a good chance a lot of people will believe him?
Duh.
Vote for him. He’s a Republican, hence a lot better at understanding the nature of the threats to the Nation and fending them off. Isn’t national security your biggest concern?
All this bile and hatred coming from the left disgusts me. I’m not defending homophobic politicians, though. I’d do it for every Republican.
If that’s all it was, blowing off steam on a message board, then fine. But the trouble is, it carries over into day to day life, and in my opinon has a deleterious effect on the gay rights struggle.
I disagree. If it weren’t for us well-meaning and clueless outsiders, there would only be hate-filled gays vs. hate-filled bigots, and guess who’d lose out there? It is with those such as me where the battle is fought and won.
Well, my friend…I’m disappointed in you. I would never have thought that you, of all people, would say something like this to me. You know damn good and well I’m not patting anyone on the head, and I’m not condescending to anyone either! The fact that you (and again, you, of all people) would look at my words this way shows me that further discourse here is a total waste of time.
Please show me where anything I said could possibly be construed as telling you to give him a free pass! I expect this kind of thing from the likes of certain others, but not from you. (Just goes to show what I’ve long observed: that emotion and intellect are truly not one and the same.) It seems that your perception can be distorted, and you can read things into posts that aren’t there just like anyone else.
Bummer. 
Well, my dear, I’ve run out of cheeks to turn (I was only born with four). After the kind of bullshit this fellow is putting out (as AIDS czar, for Pete’s sake), if the worst he gets is a couple of kvetching queens on his tail, he should count himself lucky. Do forgive me if I get angry after someone goes out of his way to shit all over me.
It means that just because he says it, it doesn’t make it so. And I don’t believe a very significant part of the population, probably not even one percent, view gays, or would come to on his word, as being a greater threat than al-Qaeda.
Well, as you can see, I haven’t left yet. And to tell you the truth, I don’t know how I’d react. But I damn sure would hope I wouldn’t read into the words of someone who’s on my side and wants to see good things happen for me the kind of bullshit I’ve come in for here; and I would hope that I didn’t misread and misinterpret virtually everthing they say, and get pissed off at them despite, in some cases, a personal knowledge of my true character (you listening, ETF?); and I would hope I didn’t develop an insular us-vs.-them mentality where I believed that no one suffering from the same grievances as I had any right or ability to say or offer anything of value because they couldn’t possibly know.
Well, the whole telling calm people with reasonable objections that they’re frothing militants thing certainly gave me that impression.
You know, Starving Artist, you seem to be the one who’s doing the over-reacting here. I’m serious. There’s nothing in this thread that’s much more than a “Fuck you too, buddy!” and you’re carrying on like we’re sending death threats to his children. I think we’ve got some pretty fundamental differences in perception, and I’d be curious to see you quote what exactly you see as particularly “agressively hostile and hate-filled.” Preferably something from before your first posting in here, but I won’t hold you to that limitation.
I don’t think you’re doing it intentionally, but there is an element of condescension in telling people who have been intimatly, personally involved in gay rights activism (And lord knows, I’m not one of them. This thread is about as activist as I get.) how best to be an activist. Yes, you are (in theory) their target audience, but you are not the whole of their audience. What’s your experience in agitating for civil rights, off of which you base the advice you’ve given in this thread?
What would you recommend as an alternative? What would be, in your view, a proper response to what he said? What would you do?
Are you sure this problem in perception is not perhaps on your end, and not ours? If EddyTeddyFreddy has so totally misinterpreted you, maybe it’s because you’re not expressing yourself very well.
Starving Artist: Why haven’t you actually left yet? You thought we needed more tired platitudes from someone who feels superior and put upon by the minority?
I’d use the Anne Robinson line, but it is so 2001.
That didn’t make any sense the first time you said it. I’m not any more enlightened this time around. Look, if someone says, “Gays are Godless, hell-bound sinners,” that’s offensive. No one’s worried that if he says it three times it’s suddenly going to come true. Gays are not like Beetlejuice.
I don’t think he believes it, either. It’s obviously hyperbole. But it’s hateful, evil, bigotted hyperbole. If a guy says “Black people are dumber than dirt,” he’s not literally proposing that Africans can be outwitted by a clump of sod. That doesn’t make the underlying sentiment any less insulting.
And there’s a significant part of the population that eats that shit up with a spoon.
Wow. And we’re the ones over-reacting? Maybe you really should stop posting for a while. At least for tonight. Get some sleep, or something, because you seem to be really freaking out over very little here.
Just for the record, Starving Artist, I don’t think you’re a bigot, or a homophobe, or evil, or oppressive, or stupid, even. I just don’t think you’ve got a clue what you’re talking about. But I don’t think you’re a bad person because of it.
Well, I just spent a lot of time answering your previous post–you know, the one just before that stupid bird starting its tinny chirp–and the hamsters just ate it!
So yeah, I’m damn puffed! 
But do try to remember that the things you’re referring to above that appear to be an over-reaction are really just an attempt on my part to condense most of what I’ve come in for here into just a paragraph or two. That, and as I’ve said, I’ve been knocked somewhat for a loop by some of ETF’s posts. She has been a good friend for a long time, and I really wasn’t expecting some of the things I heard out of her.
Well, that’s your prerogative, of course.
Thanks…I think. 
Damn, I think you’re right! I do need sleep! That “prerogative” line goes after the part where you erroneously call me clueless, and before the brilliantly perceptive part about my not being a bad person.
Well, if she’s such a good friend, maybe you should listen to her. If what she’s saying is upseting you, maybe it’s because what you’re saying is upseting her.
Maybe so. Thanks.
Now I think I really will go. No…I mean it, really!
Good night. 
I’ve got to call bullshit on that. As soon as everybody thinks that this only affects gay people, we’re all fucked. Because then you have everybody acting only out of self-interest and leaving everything up to the majority to decide. And then anyone who’s different – for whatever reason – gets trampled on.
What’s counter-productive is treating people like because they don’t have a personal stake in the issue, they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. And on the flip side, what’s counter-productive is leaving or threatening to leave the argument because you don’t like what’s being said. It takes backbone to weather a discussion to make sure you’re hearing both sides of it and making your own point clear, just as it takes backbone to try and see who your real enemy is instead of lashing out at everybody who you think just might be disagreeing with you.
And for the record, Miller’s right – I’m still confused at how anything in this thread has been “venomous bile and hatred.” Y’all seriously think that this is extremist rhetoric? You haven’t been paying near enough attention. Here are some toned-down samples from both sides:
It’s all bullshit. Why do people feel like they need to add more shit to the mix?
Sol, I’m going to try to make this quick as the cutoff approaches. Part of my post to Miller which got eaten was to acknowledge that prior to my first post, things really weren’t all that heated. Most of the bile and vitriol came about in subsequent posts which were pretty much in response to what I’d said or was perceived to have said.