Why, yes, that is an unassailable position! And as soon as you provide any actual evidence that this is so, or will be so, you will have a point! We wait with bated breath…
Ask and ye will receive:
http://www.grantland.com/fivethirtyeight/story/_/id/9802433/nate-silver-us-government-shutdown/
This is the same Avik Roy who judged comparisons in rates between Obamacare and before Obamacare by looking at the rates offered before looking at health concerns on insurance company websites? That guy? Yeah, excuse me for not assuming that his math is on point, especially given the sheer bulk of extremely partisan (read: dishonest) math being pushed against Obamacare. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that it’s more reasonable to assume that he’s talking out of his ass, given his track record.
Or, you know, allowed them to buy what they previously were completely incapable of buying for literally any price.
Aha! See? Previously those people paid nothing for their insurance premiums! Therefore, anything they have to pay now represents an increase! And therefore Obama lies about everything! It’s so simple!
People who had less comprehensive plans that they liked don’t get to keep their insurance, so yeah, he lied.
He also said, repeatedly, that Americans would see an average $2500 in savings on their premiums. Big fat lie.
Wrong- the President doesn’t control what private companies do- if companies change their insurance plans for their employees (as mine has almost every year I’ve worked for it), that’s not the President’s fault. His point was that the ACA does not order anyone or any company to change insurance plans for a particular employee (which was a false accusation by opponents), and it doesn’t. What the President said is accurate in the context he used.
Wrong again- the various parts of the bill meant to control costs have not all been implemented together for long enough to take effect yet- we don’t know exactly how much savings there will be. Come back in a few years.
Before your next post, read every sentence you write, at least twice, and make sure what you say is factually accurate (or just qualify it as your opinion). Please.
We can fairly assume that the complete lack of reliable citation marks it as opinion.
some existing plans are not ACA compliant. You will pay the tax if you stick with them.
Ah, okay, victory over health care costs is just around the corner.
There was no citation for Hentor’s claims.
Yes, but you’re not Hentor. Or, more precisely, Hentor isn’t you.
Hentor made unsupported claims. I said they were BS, and since there was no cite, I’m on firm ground. Then elucidator comes along and asks for to prove Hentor’s statements are BS with a cite. That makes no sense.
Am I misunderstanding something?
Yes. Yes you are.
What mistake is he making? Can Hentor provide cites to back up his claim? Are both talking out of their asses?
BTW, I’ll cite whatever you guys want, if I know what I’m supposed to be citing. Apparently Hentor’s claims that people are happy with ACA right now and that premiums are going down is an uncontroversial claim here requiring no evidence. So tell me what you want to cite, since apparently my claims actually were controversial, and I’ll be happy to do it.
http://about.bgov.com/2013-10-08/exchange-competition-cuts-health-insurance-costs-bgov-insight/
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=69D17A5D-4E91-44B5-8200-24512CE2C10A
I think you ought to reconsider where you get your information. Then again, lots of people have told you that before. Nothing seems to change.
This feels like a Fox News chyron. Am I talking out of my ass? Is DSeid woefully ignorant of the news? Is DSeid a secret Kenyan terrorist?
Just that his asking for you to cite your claim did not seem so crazy and only asking him to seemed unfair. Yes, your track record is better, (and you have now done so) but fairness requires that both sides of a discussion are held to the same standards.
As for people being happy…
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/02/2721501/butch-matthews-obamacare-convert/
Read that last quote again. That is what makes Republicans’ collective butt pucker, and that is the entirety of the reason behind the shutdown tantrum.
I actually didn’t ask him for a cite.
Anyway, counter-cites:
Get ready to shell out more money for individual health insurance under Obamacare … in some states, that is.
While many residents in New York and California may see sizable decreases in their premiums, Americans in many places could face significant increases if they buy insurance through state-based exchanges next year.
That’s because these people live in states where insurers were allowed to sell bare-bones plans and exclude the sick, which has kept costs down. Under Obamacare, insurers must offer a package of essential benefits – including maternity, mental health and medications – and must cover all who apply. But more comprehensive coverage may lead to more expensive insurance plans.
http://www.chron.com/business/article/Family-insurance-in-jeopardy-at-small-companies-4716792.php
nsurance companies have already warned small business customers that premiums could rise 20 percent or more in 2014 under the Affordable Care Act. That’s making some owners consider not paying for coverage for workers’ families, even though insurance is a benefit that helps companies attract and retain top talent. If more small business owners decide to stop paying for family coverage, it will accelerate a trend that started as the cost of health insurance soared in recent years.
Under the law, companies with 50 or more employees are required to provide affordable coverage for their workers. They also must offer health insurance to employees’ dependents, but don’t have to pay for it. And they aren’t required to offer insurance at all to employees’ spouses.
Mike Shoop got a taste of what buying insurance will be like under the ACA when he shopped for a policy that will take effect Sept. 1. His insurer quoted premiums 8 percent higher than his current policy, and warned Shoop that he’d get an even larger increase a year from now. Shoop, who owns a debt collection company in Greeley, Colo., said he may have to cut back on insurance for his employees’ families if rates keep soaring.
The most detailed supporting document focuses on the group that represents just 7 percent of today’s insurance market. The individual market is the one most likely to see rate hikes but the ACA provides tax credits to cushion the impact of those hikes.
While most states have yet to announce their final rates, every expert we spoke to agreed that some people will pay more.
The fact is, some people will pay less, some people will pay more. I never argued that it was a sure thing that premiums would go up, only that IF they did, voters would be very upset at having to pay more. Hentor claimed that premiums were going down, which while supported by his cites, his cites do not tell the whole story.
Yes. Guess who they are! Go ahead, take a wild stab at it!
Only one of adaher’s cites has actual evidence, and that is from an anecdotal experience for one guy in CA. I don’t deny that anecdote, but I suspect there is info being left out about his insurance plan.
Otherwise, his evidence is from July or August, or is an opinion piece. I would prefer to see evidence that costs have actually gone up.