Swing state polling and the electoral college map

It’s encouraging that the polls are continuing to drift Biden-ward, but as repeatedly noted they only matter if the election is free and fair, the voting machines don’t get hacked, mail-in ballots aren’t discarded and no active intimidation occurs at the polls. Sadly, all of those things are not only possibly but quite likely.

Somebody on twitter this morning observed that we are witnessing the greatest organized effort in voter suppression in the history of the country. Ratfuckery in the Pennsylvania legislature, fake ballot boxes in California, roll purging in multiple states and Russian hacking of the systems, we seem to have it all in spades.

That might all be hyperbole. But a fully developed, mature democracy shouldn’t have to worry about all this stuff at all. Republicans are going the way of minority authoritarian parties in corrupt third world nations.

Whoever might be involved in that must be purely interested in a local race (possible) or too stupid for words. From either side. Because Biden is going to win CA in a blue tsunami and there is very little anyone can do to influence that. He’s variously up ~25-40% here and Hillary Clinton won CA with a 30% margin, the highest since 1936. I suspect Biden will better that, probably handily, possibly setting a new record.

The only thing that might suppress votes in CA is people being lazy because they are sure Biden is winning CA.

I don’t really expect a lot of too-lazy-don’t-vote people. There are lots of people who’ve been anxiously waiting 4 years to vote against the orange Twit(terer) and they’re going to vote for sure, even if they have to walk barefoot over hot coals. And they outnumber the hard core Tumpists by a fair amount.

Ohio voter here. My wife and I received our absentee ballots in the mail last week. We are also in a county that was impacted by a large number of ballots being incorrectly printed but ours are okay. However, we have both decided to go to the county early voting location and turn in our blank paper absentee ballots and vote early in person at a machine. Although technically both are considered absentee, we feel more confident that there is less chance of GOP bullshit taking away our vote by removing the paper absentee ballot from the equation. Early votes are tabulated in advance so our result will also be included in the results on election night.

from what I can see, if fl or oh can be called for biden on election night it is basically over for trump.

Trump's campaign claimed that the canceled reservations were a result of its confidence he’ll win those states.

"President Trump and his campaign are extremely confident about our chances in these states.

Sound like someone in 2016? Not that I am expecting Biden to win Ohio.

He really could. Both Bill Clinton (by pluralities) and Barack Obama (by outright majorities) did.

And see:

I didn’t know whether to put this in the 538 thread or this one but Fivethirtyeight has an interesting piece out today where they contacted 21 major pollsters to find out how they have changed their methodologies since 2016.

TL/DR version: some have adjusted their weighting for education and some have changed the way they go about contacting voters. Most are still worried about undercounting likely Trump voters somewhat but only one said that they were still worried about missing significant numbers of “shy Trump” voters.

My takeaway from the piece is that the polls may still be overstating the Biden leads – Nate Silver has written before that state polls historically average about a 5% margin of error – but that his leads, already better than Hillary’s, are also statistically firmer than her’s were.

We’re reaching the point anyway (one of our posters is tracking this somewhere in this forum) where Biden wins even if you subtract five points from every statewide lead he currently has. And I don’t think they’re going to be five points off next month.

I’ve noted this before: the nytimes has a chart where they adjust current state polls by the error rate from 2016 and a few weeks ago Biden passed the 270 EC threshold. That makes me feel much better.

Three weeks to go! At least 10.6 million people have already voted.

State Dates Pollster Sample D R Net
Alaska 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Alaska Survey Research 676 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 50% R + 4%
Arizona 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 296 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 45% D + 6%
Arizona 9/28/2020 - 10/5/2020 HighGround Inc. 400 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 45% D + 1%
Arizona 10/3/2020 - 10/5/2020 Data Orbital 550 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 43% D + 4%
Arizona 9/28/2020 - 10/6/2020 Latino Decisions 600 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 45% D + 3%
Arizona 9/29/2020 - 10/7/2020 Ipsos 633 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 46% D + 2%
Arizona 10/4/2020 - 10/7/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 727 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 43% D + 6%
Arizona 10/6/2020 - 10/8/2020 Trafalgar Group 1087 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 44% Donald Trump 48% R + 4%
Arizona 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 1144 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 46% D + 3%
Colorado 10/1/2020 - 10/6/2020 SurveyUSA 1021 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 40% D + 10%
Colorado 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 837 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 54% Donald Trump 40% D + 14%
Florida 9/23/2020 - 9/29/2020 Cherry Communications 604 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 44% D + 5%
Florida 9/27/2020 - 10/2/2020 Saint Leo University 489 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 44% D + 6%
Florida 9/27/2020 - 10/2/2020 Saint Leo University 489 LV Kamala D. Harris 47% Mike Pence 47% R + 0%
Florida 9/27/2020 - 10/2/2020 Saint Leo University 500 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 43% D + 6%
Florida 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 560 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 46% D + 4%
Florida 10/1/2020 - 10/5/2020 Quinnipiac University 1256 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 40% D + 11%
Florida 10/4/2020 - 10/6/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 998 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 44% D + 5%
Florida 9/29/2020 - 10/7/2020 Ipsos 678 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 45% D + 4%
Florida 10/6/2020 - 10/7/2020 Opinion Savvy/InsiderAdvantage 400 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 43% Donald Trump 46% R + 3%
Florida 10/9/2020 - 10/10/2020 Florida Atlantic University 644 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 47% D + 4%
Florida 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 4785 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 46% D + 5%
Florida 10/10/2020 - 10/12/2020 Emerson College 690 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 48% D + 2%
Georgia 9/27/2020 - 10/6/2020 University of Georgia 1106 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 48% R + 1%
Georgia 10/7/2020 - 10/7/2020 Landmark Communications 600 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 49% R + 2%
Georgia 10/8/2020 - 10/9/2020 Public Policy Polling 528 V Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 46% D + 1%
Georgia 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 1837 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 49% R + 2%
Iowa 10/1/2020 - 10/5/2020 Quinnipiac University 1205 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 45% D + 5%
Iowa 10/3/2020 - 10/6/2020 Civiqs 756 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 47% D + 1%
Iowa 10/6/2020 - 10/9/2020 YouGov 1035 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 49% Even
Maine 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 500 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 39% D + 11%
Maine 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 466 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 40% D + 11%
Maine CD-1 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 243 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 61% Donald Trump 29% D + 32%
Maine CD-1 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 232 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 62% Donald Trump 30% D + 32%
Maine CD-2 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 248 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 40% Donald Trump 49% R + 9%
Maine CD-2 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 Critical Insights 234 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 41% Donald Trump 49% R + 8%
Maryland 9/29/2020 - 10/1/2020 Change Research 650 V Joseph R. Biden Jr. 61% Donald Trump 32% D + 29%
Maryland 9/30/2020 - 10/4/2020 Goucher College 776 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 61% Donald Trump 30% D + 31%
Michigan 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 676 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 43% D + 8%
Michigan 9/29/2020 - 10/6/2020 Ipsos 709 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 43% D + 8%
Michigan 10/4/2020 - 10/6/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 700 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 42% D + 8%
Michigan 10/6/2020 - 10/7/2020 Emerson College 716 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 54% Donald Trump 43% D + 11%
Michigan 9/30/2020 - 10/8/2020 Baldwin Wallace University 1134 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 43% D + 7%
Michigan 10/6/2020 - 10/9/2020 YouGov 1190 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 52% Donald Trump 46% D + 6%
Michigan 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 1710 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
Michigan 10/6/2020 - 10/11/2020 Siena College/The New York Times Upshot 614 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 40% D + 8%
Minnesota 10/1/2020 - 10/6/2020 SurveyUSA 929 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 40% D + 7%
Minnesota 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 898 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 44% D + 6%
Missouri 9/28/2020 - 10/2/2020 Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group 600 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 50% R + 2%
Missouri 9/24/2020 - 10/7/2020 YouGov 931 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 43% Donald Trump 52% R + 9%
Montana 9/30/2020 - 10/5/2020 Data for Progress 737 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 43% Donald Trump 49% R + 6%
Montana 10/5/2020 - 10/7/2020 Emerson College 500 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 44% Donald Trump 56% R + 13%
Montana 10/9/2020 - 10/10/2020 Public Policy Polling 798 V Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 52% R + 6%
Nebraska CD-2 10/1/2020 - 10/4/2020 FM3 Research 450 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 53% Donald Trump 42% D + 11%
Nevada 10/2/2020 - 10/6/2020 Siena College/The New York Times Upshot 660 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 42% D + 6%
Nevada 10/6/2020 - 10/9/2020 YouGov 1036 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 52% Donald Trump 46% D + 6%
Nevada 10/7/2020 - 10/11/2020 WPA Intelligence (WPAi) 512 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 44% Donald Trump 42% D + 2%
New Hampshire 10/1/2020 - 10/4/2020 Saint Anselm College 1147 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 53% Donald Trump 41% D + 12%
New Jersey 9/30/2020 - 10/5/2020 Fairleigh Dickinson University (PublicMind) 582 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 53% Donald Trump 38% D + 15%
New Jersey 9/30/2020 - 10/5/2020 Fairleigh Dickinson University (PublicMind) 736 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 52% Donald Trump 35% D + 17%
North Carolina 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 396 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 47% D + 2%
North Carolina 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 East Carolina University 1232 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 47% D + 3%
North Carolina 9/30/2020 - 10/5/2020 Data for Progress 1285 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
North Carolina 9/29/2020 - 10/6/2020 Ipsos 601 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 47% Even
North Carolina 10/4/2020 - 10/6/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 938 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 44% D + 5%
North Carolina 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 1993 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 46% D + 4%
North Carolina 10/8/2020 - 10/11/2020 Monmouth University 500 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 46% D + 3%
North Carolina 10/8/2020 - 10/11/2020 Monmouth University 500 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 46% D + 4%
North Carolina 10/8/2020 - 10/11/2020 Monmouth University 500 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 48% D + 1%
Ohio 10/2/2020 - 10/6/2020 Siena College/The New York Times Upshot 661 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 45% Donald Trump 44% D + 1%
Ohio 9/30/2020 - 10/8/2020 Baldwin Wallace University 1009 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 45% Donald Trump 47% R + 2%
Ohio 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 2283 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 49% R + 3%
Pennsylvania 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 468 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 46% D + 4%
Pennsylvania 10/1/2020 - 10/5/2020 Quinnipiac University 1211 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 54% Donald Trump 41% D + 13%
Pennsylvania 10/4/2020 - 10/5/2020 Emerson College 688 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 47% D + 3%
Pennsylvania 10/4/2020 - 10/6/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 927 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 42% D + 7%
Pennsylvania 9/30/2020 - 10/8/2020 Baldwin Wallace University 1140 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 44% D + 5%
Pennsylvania 10/5/2020 - 10/9/2020 Whitman Insight Strategies 517 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 46% D + 5%
Pennsylvania 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 2610 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 52% Donald Trump 44% D + 8%
Pennsylvania 10/6/2020 - 10/11/2020 Ipsos 622 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
Pennsylvania 10/6/2020 - 10/11/2020 Ipsos 622 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 45% D + 6%
Pennsylvania 10/10/2020 - 10/12/2020 Trafalgar Group 1034 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 45% D + 2%
South Carolina 9/24/2020 - 9/28/2020 GBAO 800 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 44% Donald Trump 49% R + 5%
South Carolina 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 903 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 42% Donald Trump 54% R + 12%
Texas 9/27/2020 - 10/2/2020 EMC Research 848 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 49% Even
Texas 9/25/2020 - 10/4/2020 YouGov 908 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 45% Donald Trump 50% R + 5%
Texas 9/30/2020 - 10/5/2020 Data for Progress 1949 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 45% D + 2%
Texas 10/3/2020 - 10/6/2020 Civiqs 895 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 48% Donald Trump 48% Even
Texas 10/5/2020 - 10/6/2020 Rasmussen Reports/Pulse Opinion Research 1000 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 44% Donald Trump 51% R + 7%
Texas 10/7/2020 - 10/8/2020 Public Policy Polling 721 V Joseph R. Biden Jr. 50% Donald Trump 49% D + 1%
Texas 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 3455 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 49% R + 2%
Washington 10/8/2020 - 10/12/2020 SurveyUSA 591 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 55% Donald Trump 34% D + 21%
West Virginia 9/29/2020 - 9/30/2020 Triton Polling & Research 525 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 38% Donald Trump 56% R + 18%
Wisconsin 9/30/2020 - 10/4/2020 Marquette University Law School 700 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 47% Donald Trump 42% D + 5%
Wisconsin 9/30/2020 - 10/4/2020 Marquette University Law School 805 RV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 46% Donald Trump 41% D + 5%
Wisconsin 10/2/2020 - 10/4/2020 Change Research 442 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
Wisconsin 10/4/2020 - 10/7/2020 Redfield & Wilton Strategies 688 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 41% D + 10%
Wisconsin 9/30/2020 - 10/8/2020 Baldwin Wallace University 883 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 49% Donald Trump 42% D + 7%
Wisconsin 10/2/2020 - 10/11/2020 Morning Consult 1067 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
Wisconsin 10/6/2020 - 10/11/2020 Ipsos 577 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 44% D + 7%
Wisconsin 10/6/2020 - 10/11/2020 Ipsos 577 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 52% Donald Trump 45% D + 7%
Wisconsin 10/8/2020 - 10/11/2020 Siena College/The New York Times Upshot 789 LV Joseph R. Biden Jr. 51% Donald Trump 41% D + 10%

Source

One thing to keep in mind is that national polls were actually pretty accurate in the end. It was the state polling that made the race difficult to predict, and it was the state results that surprised pundits and the press.

There was always the possibility of a shocking conclusion in 2016 - that was never discounted as a possibility. The state-level uncertainty in polling is why Trump had a 30-35% chance of winning entering the final week. There is still that possibility in 2020, but it’s a little less likely than it was then.

One thing working against Trump is that he has never expanded his base. He is counting on his base to participate. All indications are that they will, but most political campaign strategists would also never want to rely on those voters completely. And yet, save for the stray voter here and there who is just allergic to careerist politicians, democrats, brown skin, or whatever, Trump is heavily dependent on that base – even more so than he was in 2016. There will be fewer voters ‘coming back home.’

Working in Trump’s favor is the fact that Joe Biden is perceived as older, more feeble, and a political careerist with no ideological backbone. However, this has actually worked to Biden’s advantage. Biden has remained viable largely on the basis of anti-Trump outrage. He hasn’t really needed to be all that ideological. Whereas some of the Bernistas in 2016 said “Screw it, I’m gonna sit back and watch this shit burn down,” even a lot of these voters now realize you can only set yourself on fire so many times. It hurts, after all.

These are bad polls for Trump -and yet, it’s still too early to write a eulogy for his presidency.

The only thing that is going to make me feel better is if Biden and the Democrats win by outstanding, huge majorities. The Trumpists are going to pull out all the stops on trying to destroy the democratic process, and to throw out votes and get states to overturn a Biden win. Biden is going to have to win many swing states by VERY large margins to stop them.

This Real Clear Politics page of the top 6 battleground states is certainly making me feel better today.

Average spread for the 6 is Biden +4.9, the highest it’s been since Aug 6 and trending up. Pennsylvania and Michigan are at Biden +7.0

Again, this needs to be an absolute blow-out election for me to feel safe. No close contests. House seats need to be increased. Senate needs to flip- and in a big way. I want to see 52;48 in the senate at least.

The only way the country can move forward is if Trump is repudiated bigly by the voters. Only then will the cowardly politicians suddenly forget that they ever knew Trump, and hope to God that everyone else forgets their sucking up to Trump. Only then can Trump be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Apropos of nothing… I recently came across a reference to this Congressman, and only wish that Nelson “Rocky” Rockefeller had the chance to pick him as his running mate.

Related to that, from a book 1968 - The Year That Rocked the World

On March 22 Rockefeller had announced that he was not a candidate. His mishandling of the 1968 campaign when he had everything in his favor meant the undoing of Rockefeller’s career, which in turn meant the orphaning of the liberal wing of the Republican Party. With the exception of one desperate hour when Rockefeller himself served as unelected president Gerald Ford’s vice president after Nixon resigned in disgrace, the Republican Party has never again turned to a politician from its moderate wing for president or vice president. 1968 was the year in which the Republican Party became a far more ideological party—a conservative party in which promising moderates have been marginalized

GHWB was considered a moderate in 1980 when Reagan picked him.

I’m curious about something and hoping someone here can help. We’ve seen a much larger than normal turnout for early voting, where it’s allowed. We also know (or strongly suspect based on previous polls and data) that Democrats and Biden supporters appear to be turning out strongly in early voting compared to Republicans and Trump supporters.

So my question is this: do pollsters take this effect into account? I’m assuming (possibly in error) if I’m on a call list for a poll about who I’m supporting for POTUS that because I’ve already voted, that means the data on who I support wouldn’t be used, since I’m not a likely voter, as I’ve already voted. Would that mean that if Biden supporters are more likely to vote early, that Biden’s lead in various polls should shrink as the election approaches?

From what I understand, if you tell a pollster that you’ve already voted, your responses are recorded, and you are listed as a “very likely voter” for their records.

They are more worried about a couple close congressional races, and the idea is “Biden won thru fraud! Massive election fraud! Ballot harvesting! Fake ballot boxes!”. (GOP: “well, yes, we committed the fraud, but so?” )