no no…I dont wanna be a superpower let alone desperately.
From what I’ve read, India and its leaders maintain a low key. They say they wanna lift all our people out of poverty and be an important part of global decision making.
I dont see claims wanting to be the military superpower, arm-twisting other nations, beating the supposed current superpower or other lesser powers on various parameters such HDI, GDP etc..
Not that it is the key element here, but I can’t figure out what the Hell that means. 85 Men for every 100 Women doesn’t really seem like a rape recipe, unless I am missing something. Did he mean 85 out of 100, i.e.85:15 ratio? Is that area really that bad ? I’ve heard of Female Infanticide of course, but are there areas that extreme?
Only she was raped. The men made the decision to rape, so it is not a question of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is not that she is meant to get her vagina out of their ways. They are not meant to put their penis there if there is a vagina already occupying the space. Simple rule.
So not only should I avoid places like Alaska and MIT with their low men:women ratios, but as a rule I should avoid being around men who can’t get laid.
Crossing off monasteries, leper colonies, and the IT department at work from my travel wish list.
Still, if you run the available numbers for comparison, American women are raped about 100 times as often as any woman in India. Does that qualify the US for some sort of ‘stay out if you want to be safe’ status?
no , not that bad. they meant 85:100 female to male ratio.
and thats not a recipe for rape. But if you add banditry, criminal mentality n culture of the area to it, it becomes a recipe.
last month there was a topic here asking if there’s a rape culture in India. That is all rubbish, per capita reported rape rate in USA is more than 10 times higher than India, even if you add any reasonable correction for under-reporting, it would still be substantially less than other countries.
Number of rapes is not very high overall and there’s no rape culture. I am born n brought up in India and live in India. I know.
u should def. avoid criminals who cant get laid:)
i am an engineer myself , there werent too many girls in my college. But our campus area was not known for rapes:)
I can’t control other people, I can only control myself. In an ideal world I could traipse into Mexico and not worry about drug cartels, robbery, and kidnapping (okay, I’m not sure of the current situation, but there were travel advisory warnings a year or two ago about people getting attacked, kidnapped, or rob on the road to Rocky Point by gangs). Unfortunately, we happen to live in a world where I may have a very poor outcome if I take certain actions I have every legal, ethical, and moral right to.
That doesn’t mean I deserve to get raped, robbed, or murdered. It doesn’t even mean it’s my fault if I get raped robbed or murdered when doing something like that. But I should take precautions. Yes, it’s unfortunate that women (or people in general judging by the kidnapping case) may have their travel options limited by the current state of affairs. It’s really, truly terrible that people can’t go anywhere they choose and expect a positive, fulfilling outcome with no tragedy. But you can’t go marching off to places assuming you’re in a perfect world because it should be a perfect world.
I feel bad for both of these people. I really wish it didn’t happen. They’re certainly not “at fault” for venturing into a bad area and having a bad outcome, and I don’t think they had a responsibility to somehow “just know” it was a bad area. However, the flipside is that people who say people really shouldn’t be going to certain places because bad things might happen are bad people. I’m sure if they could magically make it a safe place, they would, but they can’t suddenly make every degenerate and criminal behave, so the best they can do is warn you that the place you want to travel to may end you up with a bad experience.
(Of course, the news article and possibly certain posters are going beyond this. I just took these posts to mean that somehow the fact that some places in the world are not safe and you probably shouldn’t go there is an appalling thing to point out.)
Because… they aren’t from around there and don’t know any better?
Well, there’s the problem – they weren’t from India, they were from Switzerland.
I don’t know why you’d expect tourists to be as knowledgeable about an area as someone who lives there or near there.
Frankly, I don’t see much if any difference. You’re blaming people who are from outside India for not knowing a place in India was unsafe. Do you actually expect tourists to be as knowledgeable as residents about a place?
The comment about them taking “a wrong turn” also makes me wonder if they were just lost, something that happens to tourists and it wasn’t so much the deliberately chose that spot to camp as they wandered into it in their ignorance.
You know, this comes across like India doesn’t give a damn about foreign visitors. They didn’t do all possible research prior to their trip so sucks to be them, they “asked for it” which implies they deserved it on some level - that will teach those tourists to go over there! As opposed to gee, that’s terrible, if only they had done X or asked Y this wouldn’t have happened.
Does India care what happens to visitors to their country or not?
Well giving off information that certain places are dangerous is always a good idea, heeding a warning is also a good idea. Sure.
That’s really not the same as saying “stupid woman put her vagina in a place where 9 men just happened to want to put their penises at that time”. At the end of the day, she was there. And she shouldn’t have been raped. There is no point going over and over how she shouldn’t have been there. In the face of how much they shouldn’t have raped her that argument is beyond ridiculous.
Another problem with telling women to prevent being raped by avoiding certain areas is that that is in no way a realistic way to avoid being raped. You make all these special rules for women about when and where they should not go, and at the end of the day it will make very little difference as to the likelihood of their getting raped. Just because it might’ve made a difference in this particular case that made the news, doesn’t mean it is sound advice in general.
I’ve always considered one of the golden rules of travel to be you research the place you’re going into and make yourself aware of the dangers and the most obvious ways of avoiding them. These people were basically idiots. It’s sad what happened to them. The woman didn’t “deserve” to be raped. However swim in shark infested waters (or any other dangerous scenario) expect to to eventually get bit. And there are plenty of deserted and/or crime infested areas in the United States this could have happened.
seriously? they went camping into jungle area of another country(diff. language n even an socio-economically backward area ) which has serious warning about it. you think its not stupid either willfully ignore warnings or atleast not inquire about any jungle area in a foreign country tht one is going to explore on bicycle n camp at?
and you see no difference between this and blaming rape victim for wearing tight clothing, being out in the night even in cities, going to discos.:rolleyes:
we do, which is why all 4 alleged rapists and 2 accomplices have been arrested n hopefully get sentences quickly. which is why i said its an embarrassing and sad incident n that my heart goes out to victims…
i should have mentioned, i did not intend to criticize USA, just wanted to put things in perspective.
Oh, no? You don’ wanna beat the “existing superpower” (where? where??), just beating (up) Pakistan will do, eh? Or ya’ll would just like to beat some sense into China, maybe… ;).
no beating anyone. tell you one thing, i think we are already a superpower in songs n music:), heres my current favorite hindi song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaOBeo-5PGo
Another high profile incident in India:
This thread is depressing me.
The ratio means that there are 85 women for every 100 men. The number of marriageable women, however, would be lower (female infanticide rate has increased in the last 2 decades).
It implies that female infanticide has forced several young men to remain single, thus leading to sexual frustration. In other words, the official is saying " Hey, there are no girls left for these poor guys – what are they supposed to do?".
Any(civilized)where else, “frustration” will regarded as a contemptuous excuse for violating another human being, but in the Indian context, it will still be expected to generate sympathy. That is a direct outcome of Indian hypocrisy towards women and towards sex. See, Indians (mainly, the Hindus, but also all ex-hindu communities, e.g. the Moslems and Sikhs) will say that they revere women, and so they do – provided she is their mother, the chief minister, the prime minister or the family deity. Their own sisters and daughters must remain virgins outside of socially approved marriages (honor killings are not unheard of), but their sons and brothers must be virile men and prove themselves on the (marriage) bed (and hence the spread of HIV to married Indian women – traditionally, the lowest risk group). “After all, a man has his needs, no?”:rolleyes:
So there you have it – double standards for men and women. Add to that the fact that a whole generation of men, who were treated like little princes, and grew up believing that their mothers will find suitable brides for them, suddenly finds that there is shortage of docile women (female infanticide + better education of girls + women in paid employment), and that brides are not only scarce, but gasp, one must have the social skills to attract them! “Dear god, now even the boy must know how to cook!”. “She may have even had a boyfriend before she married him (shudder)!!”. “Did you hear? the bride-to-be called the police because they demanded a dowry!” (cue, mother-in-law reaches for her smelling salts)!
Essentially, a very large number of Indian men now find that in the social context, they are just losers. And so they hate women, especially the "powdered, painted women", who are so desirable, but so, so, inaccessible. Misogyny has always been an ingrained part of Indian culture, but with the younger generation earning their own money, they are demanding changes to corrupt country and morally bankrupt society. I am sort of proud of them – in the 70s, 80s and 90s, most girls would have tittered at the word “rape” – today, a few them might even turn incandescent with rage. Hopefully, tomorrow they might even successfully prosecute the rapists…
Or rather, there were no reported rapes. Which, even you were at one of the IITs (Indian Institute of Technology – premier engineering institutes in India), is not surprising, given the misogynist attitudes of both the faculty and the students.
WTF is with these people claiming “victim blaming”?
Some parts of any country are far more dangerous than others, and it’s a reasonable point to make that it’s unwise to be in that area.
For example: if one of my kids decided to stroll through a high-crime area in the US and was assaulted, one of my thoughts would be “what were you doing there, not smart”