This thread is very depressing to me, and the high instances of rape and sexual assault in my mother country has always depressed me. I’ve already decided that next time I return, which will be the last time, it will be on a sponsored tour only.
Sorry, can’t understand a word. It certainly sounds different from this, but is it an improvement?
But would expect that your kid would know beforehand that the area is one with high crime rate? Especially if the area consists of a sparsely populated rural setting, which hardly shows up on the geopolitical map, much less the crime statistics one?
It’s such a relief **StJoan **has India, Indian society, Indian culture, Indian religion, and most importantly Indian men all nice and tidily figured out.
Meanwhile India has a rape rate of around 1 or 2 per 100,000, Switzerland has 8/100,000, the US has around 30/100,000, and Australia has about 90/100,000.
:rolleyes:
The difference is that we don’t accept “she shouldn’t have been there” as a legitimate response.
She shouldn’t have been in the jungle. She shouldn’t have boarded a private bus. She shouldn’t have been on the balcony of a luxury hotel in one of the world’s largest cities.
And Truthseeker, there is no difference to me between “Women should feel safe from assault while going out to discos in large cities at night while wearing tight clothes” and “Women should feel safe from assault while on a biking and camping trip through a jungle.”
@stJoan , sex-ratio has much less to do with rapes my friend than you think.
gap between rich and poor - you have house worth $1-5 million in posh colonies n have workers working there for $100-200 per month . the poor see daughters of the rich, looking modern, attractive all around them and know tht they cant have them ever. this gets them frustrated and it keeps building over time results in robberies, rapes etc.
no. 2 reason rise in land prices specially in areas arnd Delhi. people who had farms have become multi-millionaires, brought up in a society where they were taught males are superior, didn’t work hard to become rich n there’s so many of them - all this makes crimes more likely to happen…
sarcasm? joke? serious? either way, thats a sub standard post.
I wasn’t at the IITs btw , I didn’t get the course of my choice there.
And the official who said that, in English I’m guessing not his NT, got criticized immediately and people have been calling for him to step down. Here in the US politicians get cheered when they tell women rape babies are a gift, and “real” rape doesn’t cause pregnancy anyway. Whole towns get together to protect their football players who rape.
Yes, that definitely improves their chances of election. I suggest that they keep on mentioning legitimate rape at every chance they can get. How can they lose?
I think that’s a big part of it. If the official response had been “This is horrible, and we’re trying to find ways to reduce this problem”, then there wouldn’t be such an outcry about it. As things stand now, I get the distinct impression that the top officials don’t think that rape, even gang rape, is much of a problem, and that the best solution to this minor problem is to tell women to stay out of dangerous areas. The officials don’t seem to think that maybe they should work on making those areas a bit safer for women. No, they just think that women should beware of some areas.
Of course, the number of incidents reported doesn’t always coincide with the actual incidents. India police have been infamously reluctant to pursue rape investigations and are accused of often not recording incidents. The UN human rights commission has identified rape as a serious problem in India and of course, there has been the national demonstrations in India after the gang rape and murder of a woman. Those protests were not just about a single incident, but about changing a system that does not do enough to protect women and prosecute rapists. Are all those Indian protestors also ignorant about India?
Here’s a clue: if you find yourself saying and thinking the same thing that blatantly misogynistic officials are saying and thinking, then maybe, just maybe, you’re on the wrong side of right.
Yes, I would expect my hypothetical kid to assume beforehand that the area was one with a high crime rate and take plenty of precautions, such as not sleeping unguarded in a tent. This is why people tradiationally would travel in large groups. More people meant people to stand watch and potentially to intimidate the bad guys away from you. These tourists weren’t stranded there after a plan crash. They deliberately went into an unsafe place and found themselves very unsafe.
Yes, you should educate yourself about where you’re going but there is no way a tourist entering an area he or she has never been before will be as knowledgeable as someone who lives there. Such a person’s research will never be perfect. People get lost, they don’t recognize landmarks, they misjudge a situation…
Bravo to the Indian authorities for acting to arrest and prosecute the criminals who, at the end of the day, are the ones actually responsible for the criminal acts that occurred. I don’t think “idiots” somehow “deserve” bad things happening to them, whether they blunder into dangerous forests or dangerous urban neighborhoods.
I think that if they had just been robbed and mugged I’d be with everyone else. I’d be like “Well, they should have taken better care, and what were they doing there anyway, flaunting their money?”
Like it or not, rape is a different kind of crime. Someone once said on the Dope that they can excuse robbery, they can even excuse murder in passion but they can never rape because you never rape accidentally. I agree with this. You don’t rape out of fury because you just found your wife of twenty years in bed with your golf partner. You rape because you are a sick fuck.
For India to be defending this by saying “Oh, well, it happens all the time, they should have known better” is not exactly a healthy attitude or one that’s going to stop future rapes or even deter them. Even the rapists are probably patting themselves on the back…“they should have known better.”
I happen to live in a part of the world where the wilder, forested, more “jungle” areas are actually safer than the cities. I don’t know if the same would apply to Switzerland or not, I just want to point out that for some people who have been trained from a young age to regard “nature” as safer than an inner city it can be quite hard to really grasp the notion that jungle=dangerous. I can see such a person assuming the jungle/forested area is safe unless explicitly and repeatedly told otherwise. We all walk around with cultural baggage. One potential benefit of tourism is unloading some of that baggage and assumptions, but the learning process isn’t always a smooth one.
It’s no different than people from warm climates getting into trouble in my area during the winter. You can tell them all you want about how quickly the weather can change and how dangerous the cold is but until they have actually experienced it firsthand it can be hard for them to grasp. They look like idiots to the natives because, dammit, haven’t we TOLD them, isn’t it OBVIOUS? No, to them it isn’t.
I agree, it’s a good idea to research any travel destination thoroughly. I disagree that failure to do so perfectly makes a tourist an “idiot” or somehow deserving of something bad occurring. I also try to reserve judgement because we really don’t know all the facts here, and likely never will because the media is more interested in headlines than in-depth reporting.
If a local woman was raped in the same area the tourist was, would yall still be harping on where she should have been or not? Just wondering. I’m thinking we would be focusing on the fuckedupness of the crime rather her residence, but hey, maybe I’m wrong.
I think some of you guys are being ridiculous. Am I the only one who has spent a good bit of time in the developing world? There are parts of many of these countries that are “beyond the reach of the law.” What this means is you should have very little expectation of safety. That’s got nothing to do with whether or not criminals in those areas are justified in raping women (they aren’t), it’s a reflection of the fact that most of the world isn’t like suburban America or even urban America.
If you walk through a warzone and get killed, that doesn’t make it right, but it’s valid to point out “you probably shouldn’t walk through warzones.”
Local women in dangerous, lawless areas like described here typically don’t wander around in situations where they aren’t protected by family and friends. I think truthSeeker2 worded things wrong, but the core point is very valid. Many countries have areas that are basically uncivilized, meaning you can expect only what protection you yourself can produce. Two people on bicycles, you basically have no protection at all against criminal gangs or roving bandits.
This isn’t the same thing at all as a coed going to a frat party with revealing clothes and getting gang raped in the basement and us saying “she shouldn’t have dressed that way.” This is more like me going hiking in Iran and then predictably getting arrested by the Iranians, or me trying to explore the DMZ in Korea.
Everyone, can we see a show of hands of who has been in a situation where they could have, if there was a rapist around, been raped?
And…I think that’s everyone! We all get in situations where we have misjudged, misunderstood, not known or simply decided to take our chances with some kind of risk. Hindsight is 20/20, and most of us have no idea how many bullets we’ve dodged.
Obviously if an area is labeled “dangerous”, people are being victimized pretty frequently, regardless if precautions like this are taken. If it was as simple as “not wandering around in situations”, there would likely be nothing to fear. It’s funny to think a 8-membered gang would be deterred by a chaperone anyway, nevermind the fact that women can’t always glue herself to someone else when she’s going about her daily business. It doesn’t take much of an imagination to see the slippery slope here.
Lets just hope women in these rapey villages aren’t carrying pepper spray in hand, lest she hurt some guy’s feelings.
Do you really buy that? I don’t. This place can’t manage to have adequate indoor plumbing, keep its people from getting various infectious diseases that are virtually eradicated in the West, and has areas that are more or less beyond the reach of law, and we believe any self-reported statistics that are totally and completely out of whack with the rest of the world?