Sympathy for the Devil and some enigmatic lyrics

Cafe Society
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In this BBQ Pit “Clusterfuck” thread there was a bit of diversion over the song in the post title, in that case, the line:

And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reach Bombay

And that was well-answered by @Smapti

and later myself, as I hadn’t seen his post. Both of us essentially concluded it was the “Hippie Trail” to India. I also postulated that Jagger was saying he (Lucifer) might have been assisting or doing some of the “evil mischief” himself. Whether the folks actually went to Bombay, I dunno. The Beatles et al were pretty far up north.

Yet Bombay sounds better lyrically than Calcutta or any other placename I can think of in India (and of course it’s Mumbai now yet I’ve seen the song performed yet it was years ago and I’d think he’s kept Bombay. Dunno if there are any songs by anyone that have “Peking” and I’d assume they didn’t change to Beijing.

Hey, maybe we can have a thread about cities that change names? I think St. Petersburg would be hard to beat: St. Petersburg (founded, named for the Apostle) → Petri → Petropolis → Petrograd (suggested by Pushkin, and actually named that by Tsar Nicholas II when WWI started and the -berg suffix is German), then after Lucifer did his deed, Leningrad and it kept that name till the fall of the USSR and they held a referendum and somehow Saint Petersburg won. If any conflict with Germany happens again, I’d expect it to be Putingrad, as the city is where he was born)

Byzantium became Byzantine then another name then another name. That’s none of my business.

So woo! woo!, back to the Stones - that is one/two enigmatic lines in an otherwise fairly straightforward song, All in good fun.

Now if this line, as recorded originally, was in the song:

I shouted out, “Who killed the Kennedys?”

it would indeed be enigmatic yet RFK was killed before the song’s release and that line was changed as he original line was “Who killed Kennedy?” (referring to JFK).

Till I was looking at the lyrics, I thought that was an exclamation yet in either version it’s a question. Any idea why that is so?

And moving on:

When, after all, it was you and me

I don’t think the Warren Commission considered Lucifer a suspect. Yet what’s up with the “you and me”. I wasn’t even alive in 1964 and too young to fly out to California to shoot my home state (New York) Senator who had basically locked up the Democratic Presidential nomination that night. What kind of metaphorical “you” is being implied here?

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I always heard that as “Who get killed before they reach far away”. No European troubadours are reaching Bombay! (Which wouldn’t even have been a well known city in medieval times, I think?)

It never occurred to me they were referring to modern hippies not medieval troubadours, though that makes sense

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This song keeps coming up here, time to call @EinsteinsHund

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Aw, come on. If it’s not your business, then whose business could it be?

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Yeah in my younger days of traveling solo to various hippy filled parts of the world there was a generational thing where the older generation were identified by have stories of traveling in Afghanistan and Iran.

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Is that the one you travel on in a fried-out Kombi with a head full of zombie?

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Yeah I said in one of the BBQ posts that if you extend the original meaning of “troubadours” from its old meaning “musician” (particularly travelling musicians) to include artists, writers, free-thinkers - these would be the folks Mick was on about and any unfortunate run-ins with gangs of highwaymen and/or Lucifer himself. Though I suppose laying traps and letting the bad guys do the deed would be more fun for him.

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Hah, actually I asked almost the exact same question almost 9 years ago:

As for"Who killed the Kennedys? After all, it was you and me": I think that just means “It’s the society, man. We’re all guilty”.

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Basically that’s the theme of the whole song.; “Don’t blame me; I’m humanity’s creation and whipping boy for all of the evils it perpetuates against itself.”

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I concur.

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Why the changed it, I can’t say. I guess they liked it better that way.

As someone who started college in 1969, that’s it exactly. Collective guilt, not exceptionally crazy people.

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I do think that was what Jagster meant, but was it really? Us (society) is quite culpable for many ills we are subjected to, but playing devil’s advocate for a moment, didn’t a lone nut, and not society, kill Kennedy?

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But we, as a society, create such weirdos with guns.

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Okay, so shouting it and framing in question form was rhetorical. Almost like saying, “I would not exist if society wasn’t inherently evil”

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Exactly. In the song, the devil doesn’t stand for a religious entity, but the inherent evil in our mundane, (in)human world.

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And I have to add that notwithstanding its interpretation, “Sympathy” probably has the best lyrics of any Stones song.

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This may be getting a bit off topic, but I suspect there have always been local strongmen/warlords.

What perhaps has changed is that in the aftermath of WW2 in which guns became mass produced, automatic weapons are now vastly easier to obtain. So the warlords can extend their reach more easily with fewer followers because of the force multiplier effect.

It is one of the enduring regrets of my life that I never did the backpack gap year &/or the hippie trail after university when it was still possible. The world seems to have gotten much more dangerous since then…

But we should probably move that discussion to a different thread,

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It also makes sense as a lot of those hippies were “killed before they reached Bombay”. The hippy trail of the 60s and 70s was incredibly dangerous compared to modern backpacker destinations.

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You may be correct, but I don’t have any data available.

I suspect that ‘modern backpacker destinations’ avoid the problem by avoiding dangerous areas, probably by having better information?