I am hoping that my country will okay the Sputnik 5. Then I will get vaccinated. So far I am skeptical of the current vaccines. Though I am 100% in favor of good proven vaccines. Vaccines are fantastic. One of the greatest advances in medicine. I may change my mind about a currently available vaccine in my country, given more information over time.
@Kedikat, where are you, what country? You don’t have location showing at your avatar (see the location thread.)
Mom (84 years old) has been staying with us in Arizona since November. She needs to return to Idaho for surgery (she’s already put it off once), so signed up for a shot in Idaho on Feb. 3.
I was able to sign her up for a shot yesterday, but she kept her Idaho appointment just in case. She got her first shot in Arizona and was going to cancel her Idaho appointment on Monday. She didn’t have to bother, she was just notified that everyone scheduled has been postponed. I’m hoping she won’t have to risk traveling to come back to Arizona for her already scheduled 2nd shot, but who knows.
A mad scramble of a clusterfuck is a very good description, @Tamerlane.
As a primary care physician, let me explain where I stand. The current vaccines have strict storage requirements. Moderna needs to be frozen and Pfizer needs to be kept even colder. To order vaccine, I would have to order in quantities of 1000 doses. Once a vial is thawed, it has to be used within a certain time or be discarded. It doesn’t make logical sense to invest several thousand dollars in deep freeze capabilities when we would likely end up wasting doses that larger medical groups could use more effectively. This is all in addition to the incredible bureaucracy involved in being an official vaccine site. My time and energy is better served helping my patients navigate the current system.
On a better note, my parents started calling around as soon as they opened vaccines to those over 75 and got appointments at a local hospital for March 5. I convinced them to get on the waiting list for their local health department. This was good because the hospital ended up canceling them because they live in the neighboring county and with the shortages they are only vaccinating those who live in the county. The health department called them, however, and they got their first shots yesterday. I am relieved since even though they are in relatively good health, they are in their 80s.
Thanks for the reply.
The federal government could have set up central cold storage facilities. I’m sure the military has them. Dry ice packs could have provided small quantities for immediate use. There are many delivery services that deliver everything from toothpaste to Pizzas. The primary care offices could have prioritized their customer list and set up a schedule of needs. The pizza guys could have delivered the small packs on schedule. The military could have handled the major logistics. It’s a large, critical problem, but the solution is not rocket science.
A system based on this concept could have been organized by a retired supply sergeant with a lap top and Excel. What was passed of as a government at the time, had logistical software and infinite resources. and still managed to totally fuck it up.
Why would the military need central cold storage facilities?
Because the military is basically a logistics organization. They set up temporary facilities in remote areas - those require food storage.
I’m sure they can make it happen but I doubt they have some big central cold storage system set up already. Most certainly not the freezers the Pfizer vaccine requires.
The military has lots of stuff like this:
The manufactirers would be more than happy to retrofit them with whatever refrigeration units are required. I suspect they can be found in depth at some supply depot.
The Pfizer vaccine must be kept at about -70 to -112º F. None of the equipment on that site meets those specs.
I haven’t heard anything on when it will be available in Taiwan. So no idea.
True because that’s not what the Army previously specified. But all that equipment is bought to spec and can be retrofitted.
The equipment exists and the Army is in the logistics business. Publix et al did not have the equipment either. And, Publix et al do not have the resources, personnel and experience of the Army.
At the rate of 900 shots a week they will soon be overtaken by the need for the second shot. The population of the county is 180,000. Publix, CVS and Walgreens will not get out of the single digits for months.
I’m sorry, but Walgreens and CVS do a lot of vaccinations every damn year. They are more likely to have some number of super cold freezers already on hand, at least at a regional level.
I have no doubt the military could help and do some parts better. But you’re kind of painting pharmacies as the fish out of water compared to the military wrt mass distribution of a drug. That’s a little iffy.
Right. Walgreens and CVS do millions of flu shots and shingles shots.
The shingles shot is a good comparison. I don’t give it in the office because it also must be kept frozen. The pharmacies have the capacity and logistics to do what small practices cannot. However, the practices that are part of a larger organization like Kaiser or those owned by hospitals are able to use their size to arrange things. Also do not underestimate the bureaucracy involved. The paperwork is incredible especially since the government is paying. Lord help you if you are seeing a patient for a regular visit and want to vaccinate them at the same time. It’s tough enough to see a patient who has both Covid and hypertension. My system keeps telling me that I need to enter certain modifier codes that apparently do not exist.
You say “can be retrofitted” as if that’s a minor undertaking that could be done swiftly, yet you have no data to show that this is so, merely your own suppositions.
This is not to say the military hasn’t played a role in the testing and distribution of the vaccine or that it hasn’t used its supply chains to do so. It has. And since that’s the case, we can logically and safely assume that if retrofitting equipment would have been a practical and efficient means of expediting distribution, it would have done so.
I understand the frustration behind your efforts to envision a better means of storing and distributing the vaccine, and I give you full points for trying.
As far as I can tell CVS and Walgreens have not yet started giving COVID vaccinations here. The county has been giving them to nursing homes and responders for about six weeks. The total vaccinated is 10% of the county population. Now they have rolled into the second round of vaccinations. So, Publix and the county are both involved in their second round of shots.
Two other problems have caused disruptions. Suppliers have missed scheduled deliveries and many on the list have already been vaccinated. Both really disrupt the scheduling process.
If I got one wish, I’d at least like to have a number so I know where I am on the list and how fast it is moving.
I realize this is a politics free zone, however this is worthy of note.
Theoretically they will start on the 65-74 crowd, which I’m near the bottom of, later this month, but I’m not holding my breath.