Taking John McCain at his word...

Great Debates
1

I’m sure most SDMB political junkies are well aware of the flap over John McCain’s declaration that “the fundamentals of the ecomomy are strong,” while the Market was taking a giant dump on monday.

I’m sure everyone is also well aware that after getting pounced on for it by the Obama campaign, McCain tried to say that the “fundamentals” he was referring to were the American workers (and how dare Obama insult the American workers?).

Ok, kind of lame, kind of weak, kind of a platitudinous, but taking him at his word that the “strength of the American workers” will somehow stave off a depression and keep the economy afloat, I have a question for him.

What was wrong with the American workers in 1929? Were they not as “innovative” or “entrepeneurial?” Were they lazy? Were they a bunch of pussies?

If the American workers were just as great in 1929 as they are now, then of what comfort is to say they’re strong now?
Also, couldn’t this kind of empty head patting backfire on him? People are staring down the abyss, they’re looking for good news and he tels them, “the fundamentals of the economy are strong.” So that makes a lot of people think, “ok, he’s plugged in. There must be some kind of sound, mathematical formula behind this which indicates that we’re not going to end up selling apples on the street.”

Then he says, “well what I meant was, you guys…you ‘workers’…you guys are tough. You’re all hard workers. You’ll work your way out of it.”

What? That’s it? That’s his reassurance?

I think his “clarification” could end up hurting him even more than the initial statement. At least make something up about “indicators” this and “fluxuations” that. Don’t just say, “you’re a hard worker, you’ll be fine.” What a tin ear.

2

It reeks of the old “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality, as if all the current financial woes are going to be magically fixed if you just work harder.

I think a lot of those people he is trying to reach are going to think, “Dammit, I have been working my ass off and it ain’t workin’ for me!”

Hopefully they will begin to see the fundamental flaw in logic in McCain’s pandering and wonder if he has a clue how bad things really are for the average working class family.

3

They already wonder. Hopefully they will stop wondering, and decide he does not have that clue.

4

I just posted on another thread that a president needs to have a balance between cheerleader and realism. McCain does not seem to grasp that balance. Bush certainly never got & has had negative impacts on the market as a result (in my opinion). Words that are ill-timed and ill-phrased can only hurt us. After almost 8 years of being hurt like that, I am not thrilled with the notion of another 4 of McSame.

5

i’m very sure the american worker during the depression was just as hard working (if not harder working, unions not being as wide spead. hours being longer.) as now. the main problem was unemployment was running about 25% at the time (6ish percent now).

once the various alphabet soup gov. work programs got going workers got to strut thier stuff. interesting point, is that huckabee was the candidate that proposed bringing back some of the alphabets back to get people working.

6

The problem is, it took GW Bush six years to wear off his lustre. And he didn’t have the hero/maverick image to begin with. Frankly, I don’t know what he had to begin with - I never could see the appeal there.

While McCain is busy scouring off his shine as fast as he can with lies, damned lies, and Sarah Palin, that kind of thing is probably not reaching the low information voter who will be deciding this election. And given Karl Rove’s statements of Sunday that McCain had been stretching the truth, look to this as a strategy that the McCain campaign figures has run its course, and they will now be as close to squeaky clean as a politician gets - until the final two weeks before the election. At that point, every dig, smear, and lie will come out of retirement and be run almost 24/7 in all the swing states - late enough to make a difference, too late for the media to label McCain as the liar he has become.

At least, that’s what I’d do if I were them and had no principles whatsoever (a bit redundant, that).

7

Hey! Be nice. For 5 and a half years, he didn’t have a word.

8

I don’t see the flaw. Are you suggesting that the way to fix the economy is not to work harder or more, but rather take it easy, or work less?

Boy, I can’t wait to tell my wife that. “Honey, I know money is getting kinda tight, but rather than working overtime to pay the bills, I’m just going to sit on the couch. That will help fix the economy. No, it’s true! I read it on the internet today!”

In response to the OP. workers are a fundamental of our economy. Not the sole one, but certainly one of the most important. If you doubt that, then you shouldn’t be bothered about shipping jobs over to India or China.

9

So you’re saying that you don’t favor McCain, and you urge others not to favor him as well?

You sure you want to go out on a limb like that?

10

That’s a gross mischaracterization. The economy’s situation is such that it won’t be magically fixed if we all just worked 10 hours more per week.

11

Are you saying the reason the economy is tanking are that people aren’t working hard enough? Is that all it takes, hard workers?

What was wrong with the American workers during the Depression?

12

I don’t urge anything. I’m just wondering if, as a matter of political strategy, it wasn’t kind of stupid to tell the American workers that they are the problem.

13

It’s just the tried and true political gambit, which never fails even when it is recognized for precisely what it is …

… pandering.

I offer this recent McCain quote at a campaign event when referring to Obama attending a fund raiser with his “celebrity friends”:

“There’s no place I would rather be than here with the working men and women of Ohio.”

I wonder how the working men and women of Indiana or Michigan or Wisconsin feel about that. I wouldn’t take that kind of shit if I were them.

14

And the thing is, “pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps,” is a impossible task. I assume it’s first use politically and economically was as a joke.

15

I’m sorry for being harsh, but that’s a really stupid point. Look at what you quoted:

Where again does it say (or even imply) anything about working less? The point is that for many people who have been “working their ass off”, it’s not going to substantially affect their current financial woes. In other words, the economic burdens these people are experiencing would be mostly unaffected by working harder (if they could work harder).

Was that really so difficult to understand?

16

Diogenes the Cynic, I think you tend to overestimate the average voter.

Most people are, I believe, more inclined to go for a positive, simple, soundbite economic message, over one that is more accurate but nuanced. Voters are more likely to hear McCain’s message (in a news soundbite or headline), and think “hmmm… McCain seems upbeat and positive - he must have a plan. I like a guy with a plan.”

Whereas if they listen to anything by Obama, they likely think “Huh? I don’t get it. This economy stuff he’s talking about sounds hard. And he doesn’t sound positive.”

99% of people really don’t go into any more depth than that.

This is why blatant lying works so well. Very few people actually find out the truth, all they remember is the simple soundbite lie. “Democrats will raise your taxes!!!” Doesn’t matter if it’s not true. If you keep pushing and pushing and pushing that lie, it actually BECOMES the truth.

The republicans are masters at, if you will, “creating their own reality.” You ignore this at your peril.

17

I think anyone with half a clue knows that McCain’s comment wasn’t about workers, and his explanation was a coverup of a big gaffe. If McCain really loved workers so much, he probably wouldn’t be supporting an economic policy that has screwed workers over the past 8 years. Workers have been working better and harder over the past 8 years, but the benefits seem to have gone to the rich and to health care costs.

18

The NY Times has a few things to say about taking McCain at his word.

19

No, No, and Nothing. Your entire assertion is illogical.

Working harder/more is a solution, but it has nothing to do with the cause. If you break your arm and go to the doctor, he’ll tell you the solution to your problem is a cast. Does that mean the lack of the cast is what caused your arm to be broken?

There’s plenty of things to pick apart about McCain without resorting to making shit up. “OMG! McCain hates the Greatest Generation!”

20

Bad analogy. You break your leg, and Dr. McCain tells you to “walk it off.” It’s a bullshit feel-good “cure” that’s tossed out without understanding what the problem is and how to actually fix it.