My first and last marathon was 16 years ago. Hit my (slow) goal time of under 4:45 (4:44 and change but hey) and said, good, check that goal off. From there I did a few years of triathloning up to a half-ironman and since then just exercising as a hodgepodge with strength training and biking as more my mainstays than anything else. Last several years no runs over 6 or 7 … until this Spring.
My eldest, age 33, end of winter declared that he was taking a break from his powerlifting and going to attempt a marathon this year. Yeah ridiculous to the sublime but that is who he is. His mother blames me.
I offered to train up to a half with him, trained over the past 9 weeks, and we just did that together this morning. 2:16:28, in my target of between 2:30 and 2:15. Not great for a runner (put me 54%ile overall and 66%ile for my gender/age group division of M 55 to 59) but I am satisfied. Went too fast to start with my last three slowing down instead of having any to kick with but still satisfied.
Now I have an option to run a Chicago area community (not the big city one, one in the burbs) marathon sponsored by my company in the fall, in about 4 months (three weeks before the Chicago one - they offer a 20 mile distance for those using it as a Chicago training run). Plenty of time to train up from a base of now having done three 13 milers.
Should I?
I do not consider this sort of distance run training as my favorite fitness thing to do and would only do it if I could do it in a way that did not result in loss of other strength gains and that allowed me to also keep doing the varied other fitness stuff I do, so I’d do a three day a week plan and keep up with my various other fitness fun (strength training mostly with rings and some weights; biking; the elliptical and rower while streaming shows, balance disc work …)
Thing is I recognize that the only reason to do it is ego. The possibility of 16 years later, then after my 60th birthday, meeting or beating my past time (low bar!) with less running than I did then. I am however not proud of that ego. (But it is still part of who I am …) My half time is such that at current conditioning I wouldn’t hit it (especially with the slowing down I hit at mile 10) but four months is enough to train up I think.
Runners and fitness fans: talk me into or out of doing this! And if I am to do it comment on the reasonableness of the three run a week plan for someone like me. (The link describes it as an “advanced” plan … which does not fit me.)
The linked plan works fine. I did a similar thing in my late 30’s when I noticed my races and workouts were slowing at the same effort. I figured I wasn’t recovering sufficiently with easy running so I subbed in a couple of cycling days and things improved greatly.
If you do a long run alternate weeks, you could go 15-17-19-21-21 and still be three weeks out. Gives a bit of flexibility if you have a bad week or weather.
IIRC correctly you’re a pediatrician but I’d encourage you to try and stash the ego and pretend you were advising a patient. There’s mixed data from what I’ve seen about older runners. There’s both benefit and risk from what I’ve seen. You are at an age where the Army physical fitness test (recently changed so maybe not applicable) allowed anyone to choose to replace the 2 mile run with the 2.5 mile walk without any diagnosis of a specific condition …other than being older.
You’ve already identified ego as an issue. That’s going to tend to dispose you to push and maybe not listen to you body when it’s telling you you training plan is too aggressive for where your body is now. The marathon itself may well see you pushing past your body’s warnings that you should quit without finishing or slow down.
It’s probably useful to stop and try to dispassionately advise yourself as a doctor about the risks. It might also be worth going to see you’re own doctor who won’t be subject to your own internal biases and ego. Ask them. Your own health status might mean the extra risk isn’t that much. You might also be ignoring the real risks due to a self image that hasn’t updated as you age.
A story that I use to try and keep myself humbled from a couple years ago. It’s not running related but fits the theme. I was commander of a training support battalion. It was one of the periods where we had a deploying unit on site preparing to head overseas. Those were busy days in the business. Then one day I discovered what an ocular migraine was after a scary loss of my peripheral vision and a visit to the emergency room. I was on day ten without a day off at that point. I was probably averaging over twelve hour days. The job didn’t involve living in the field but throwing on all my gear and heading out to visit training in progress what part of the job. even when I was not at work my phone and blackberry kept me in the loop for issues that developed both before and after I left. If the weather looked to be shitty I was more likely to head out to visit just to show leadership sharing of the difficulties. I’d had a nasty cold for a couple days that screwed with my sleep due to coughing and sneezing. My response was to ignore all of it, take cold medicine, and deal with being tired by drinking more coffee. My doctor’s questions pulled all the pushing of myself. There was some advice to slow down, get some more rest, and cut back on caffeine. “You’re in your mid 40’s now, not your mid 20s. This is your body’s way of telling you to slow down.”
You’re past your mid 40s. You admit possible issues with listening to your body’s warning signs. There’s risk in that combination.
I appreciate the words of caution DinoR and at least part of what you say is spot on - I see no fitness benefit for my personal long term fitness goals to doing a marathon that I cannot hit as well with my current hodgepodge mixed up approach, and some risk to it in terms of those long term goals. That’s the hesitation. Which may prevail, even if I start as if I am doing it.
But recognizing my ego being an issue is not the same as not being willing to listen to my body’s warning signs. I’m past my mid 40s now but I was 46 when I did my half-Ironman in 103 degrees. (And for me I was in worse shape to do such in my mid-20s!)
I have always been very good about keeping my goals in perspective in an endurance event. Goal 1 is “do not die”. Goal 2 and goal 3 are the same. Goal 4 is to finish. Goal 5 is to finish with a smile. Goal 6 is a target time (more to motivate training). Goal 7 is to not forget goals 1 through 3! I did not hit either goal 5 or 6 for the half-Ironman … by the end of the run in that heat I was not smiling, especially not after having pushed myself on the bike to pas up all those jerk swimmers who literally swam over me kicking me in the face as they passed damn ego again … first hill on the run reminded me of how big of an idiot I am … but my wife would kill me if I forgot about goals 1, 2, 3, and 7. She’s worried enough about me getting hit by a car on my bike. I took the run slow.
running coach your guidance is appreciated but if I count right that gives me 6 weeks from the second 21 to the race and that seems like a long taper. Three weeks extra for bad weather and bad weeks? But if none happen, then? Remember that at my speed 21 miles LSD pace is close to 4 hours.
Also, I live in a building with 6 flights now. What are your thoughts about sprinting stairs up and down how ever many times as part of the HIIT/speed work mix? Is it of similar impact as hills? Would jump rope work count as a HIIT day or as a cross-training one? They are great eccentric work on the gastrocs and give some decent DOMS when starting out (which protects some from DOMS later).
You sound motivated to want to do it, which is all the reason you need (plus showing your arse to Old Father Time sounds like a great reason to me).
The training does sound a lot, though, in the context you give - it not being your favourite thing and you’d want to keep up your other activities. That doesn’t sound feasible to me to be honest with you - working / family life plus middle-age recovery times, think it’s a recipe for injury. You sound experienced enough to know what a training load feels like, though, so I trust your judgement in these matters Just think the basic run volume of the marathon training would require all of your focus.
:smack::smack::smack::smack: My goof. Keep the pattern. If you don’t feel up to the 2 mile jump on a particular week, repeat the previous week. Aim for at least three runs of 19-21. Since you’ve done a half-Ironman, you could also add a 23 miler if you want.
HIIT work is not needed for marathon training. You want long stuff of near lactate threshold with a small amount just over. Weekly tempo runs and a few 10Ks are all the speed work you need. If the marathon course is hilly, you need to run hills. If you have a hilly course to run, all the better. Is trail running a possibility?
You can also run your planned marathon pace over the last third of your long run.
There’s an excellent calculator at McMillan Running. It will give you your training paces for tempo, easy, intervals, etc runs based on recent race times. You can also use your current training paces if you don’t have any recent races.
Sounds like you are a pretty avid runner, so you know your body better than any of us.
My body didn’t handle a marathon too well, and at about your age, my legs are getting creakier and creakier. Can’t imagine what they’ll be like at 70 or beyond. I no longer run, and only swim and bike. Just offering my opinion that for ME, I think a half would’ve been a much better distance than the full. Other things contributed to my current problems than the marathon - but I don’t think the marathon helped!
Also, as you know, training for the full will take a huge time commitment - both on you as well as any spouse or other commitments. If that is worth it to you, then by all means, go for it.
“A 22-year-old participant in the Cleveland Marathon died Sunday after collapsing near the finish line. The cause of death for the runner, Taylor Ceepo, was not immediately known.”
But Busy Scissors articulates my back and forth. I’m not such an avid runner, more a plodding one, and don’t look forward to 3+ hour long runs. It’s the desire to “show my arse to Father Time” that tempts me so. I’d be good at avoiding injury I think and that 22 year old clearly did not keep goals 1, 2, 3, and 7 enough in mind. That half Ironman was 14 years ago and I’ve stayed off the events since until this half but the swim portion was where I had felt most at risk. I don’t over hydrate and I set reasonable goals.
Thanks all for being my sounding board. I may start and see how the commitment feels as I push into longer long runs. The other runs are fine and the dog comes along. He needs the exercise too!
I ran a half in St Charles - as I recall, there was a very long stretch with a gradual incline - maybe around halfway. Not fun.
I understand the idea of setting goals and showing what you can do. Last year at 57 my wife and I climbed down Grand Canyon and back, and I cycled a century. But I think I’m through with such efforts. I think the half a much more sensible distance than the full. Several months after my marathon, I had my meniscus scoped. One was enough for me.
Going from ½ to full in 5ish months is hardly an aggressive training plan. There’s plenty of time in that plan for an approx ½ mile a week increase. (since you’re longest run isn’t a full 26.2)
Going down stairs is stressful on the legs. Can you run up & elevator down if you want to do stairs for cardio/speed workout? As running coach already stated; that isn’t the most important workout for a marathon anyway.
Down is the eccentric work that has its own benefits.
What I’m trying to justify is mostly doing the exercise that I want to do anyway and trying tp figure out how much I need to give up of what I want to do without the goal along with the what I will be adding above and beyond.
If I was to not do the event I’d want to do the stairs and my jumping rope as part of my mix so I want to fit it in and rationalize it, and two to three one-hour runs a week would be reasonable just for the dog’s sake. Keeping up an every other LSD 13 or even 14 to 15 even is no big deal. As long as I can keep up with my other days being biking and strength training and other stuff I like then the extra boils down to the additional 1 to 2 hours added to a total of four or five runs … so a total of less than 10 hours extra training over four months. That’s not bad …
Going beyond anecdotes it seems that my anxiety about dying during the swim portion of my tri was well placed.
And a fair number of us who have done tris are NOT the best swimmers. We come to it from biking or running and just get through the swim as best we can (wrestling the water but the water wins).
Sounds like you have the personality that allows you to workout at a pretty decent level. And I well understand the benefit of setting goals.
Some people are able to run multiple marathons with no adverse problems. I don’t want to overly blame the marathon I ran, but at this point my legs are making me question whether some of the more extreme things I did in the past were worth it.
I remember thinking the long days really set the tone for at least a few weekends. Not only wiping me out the day I ran them, but also limiting what I would do the day before. Just sorta felt guilty about taking myself away from my family so regularly.
And I recall realizing how insane it seemed when I found myself saying, “Wow - today’s a LIGHT day - only 10 miles!” Just to my mind, that was an indication that I was well beyond “fitness.”
But, like I said, I am (or WAS) all for setting and achieving fitness goals. So if this appeals to you, by all means, go for it.
What time are you aiming at? Here’s a likely tactless observation - but 4:45 for a full, and 2:16 for a half ain’t exactly rocket-fast. Especially for someone who follows the fitness regimen you describe. I guess I always sorta distinguished between what I considered running, as opposed to jogging. (Please accept that as intended to further the conversation as to WHY and WHETHER you ought to pursue this. Or think me an ass. I get that a lot.)
damn ego again … first hill on the run reminded me of how big of an idiot I am … but my wife would kill me if I forgot about goals 1, 2, 3, and 7. She’s worried enough about me getting hit by a car on my bike. I took the run slow.