Talk me into or out of seeking an MBA

In My Humble Opinion
1

TLDR version at bottom.

Coming up in December would be my 2-year anniversary of my layoff from publishing. I came into unemployment fired up and ready to go, because “Gosh darnit, I was going to find something before my severance ran out and keep the extra as gravy!” I have spent a great amount of time to the Sisyphean task of entering my info over and over in hopes of breaking though some automated wall to get to an HR rep to catch the attention of the actual hiring manager.

I have done almost everything advised: [ul]
[li]I volunteered locally;[/li][li]went back to school to learn things necessary to the web arena; [/li][li]re-did more than once my resume; [/li][li]put my portfolio up online; [/li][li]re-wrote my cover letter to fit the posting using the employer’s language; [/li][li]made complete campaigns for free for local non-profits which included print, social and web presence; [/li][li]networked though friends; [/li][li]networked through former employers; [/li][li]networked through LinkedIn; [/li][li]got a job out of industry, networked there too.[/li][/ul]

All I feel I have to show for it is a bunch of web skills going rusty, a part-time seasonal job, and a blown up inbox.

I have decided to go back to school full time. I want an industry that is not going to implode, has been and will be around forever, that I can break six figures with eventually, or at least get close. This to me sounds like finance. I want to hear reality about the industry because at my age I cannot afford to graduate with debt and a worthless degree. The hope is to become a CFA or actuary, possibly with the government. I am currently a 38 year old divorced mom, I want to hear the good and bad of it.

TLDR version: I’ve been in the workforce for over 20 years, unemployed for almost 2, and am thinking of going to B-school, with a goal of becoming actuary or a CFA. (I know sponsorship and other degrees past bachelors are necessary). Talk me out or into it.

2

Manager-y stuff makes me stabby. If YOU can stand to do manager-y stuff, go for it. That is where the money is, apparently even if you suck at it.

3

Since you’re looking for opinions, I’ll move this to IMHO.

twickster, MPSIMS mod who doesn’t have an opinion about business school, despite writing a dozen or so articles a year about it

4

An MBA, depending how your concentration and where you go, can be a good step towards a number of professions; by the same token, for some professions, you can find other ways in, or getting on-the-job training that those roles value more vs. an MBA. Have you done the research to confirm that these CFA roles require an MBA? Can you get an Accounting degree through a cheaper channel that is just as effective for your needs?

5

An MBA can open some doors; OTOH, there are a lot of schools which offer MBAs which aren’t necessarily seen as prestigious, and may not do a whole lot for you. I’d ask the schools you’re looking at about placement and recruiting.

As I understand it (and I may well be mistaken), actuarial science is often an undergraduate program (at least, it was when I was in business school, 25 years ago). However, just getting a degree isn’t enough – there are also a series of certification exams which you need to study for and pass in order to actually practice as an actuary. Also, actuary science isn’t really finance – it’s a lot of heavy-duty statistics.

6

Actuary is a series of tests (7, 9?) taken if you are a CPA. You live and breathe numbers.

CFA is a BITCH of a test - 3 of them as a I recall. Sets you up to work on Wall Street. I have VERY smart friends who have struggled with test #2, and gave up. They still work as traders.

MBA is different - it is the path corporations, not necessarily the Actuary / CFA route. Full-time MBA programs want students who can get a job after graduation - if not, their rankings go to hell. Unranked programs are not a great place to go if you are looking for a job. Recommendations I have made per the MBA:

If you are under 35 (and that is the HIGH end of age), and can get into a top 25 program - go full time if you can afford it.

If you like where you live, look at night and Executive programs that are local and still with a quality school. In that case, you are updating your resume and not really using the career center though.

7

What does it matter what age she is? Granted most MBAs get thier degrees in their mid to late 20s, but if she isn’t working anyway and can afford it, why not go full time and get it done with?
Education isn’t something you want to do on the cheap. Especially with an MBA program. I don’t care what the stupid Yahoo! Jobs articles say about “best bargain school for your money”. You never hear someone complain how their MBA from Wharton or HBS is worthless.

The OP might want to rethink working for government though. You will be much better off financially getting an MBA and working for an investment bank, management consultancy, Fortune 500 company or Silicon Valley startup.

8

To be fair, age, and lifestyle do matter because:

  • The payback for going to school later in life is not as high.
  • The OP will be competing for jobs with younger, potentially more energetic, people equally desperate for employment
  • Companies are generally more disposed to higher younger people (amendments aside)
  • Yes, i-bankers make tons of money, but they also work 80 plus hours a week right out of b-school, no joke. Consultants are notorious road warriors who typically work 50-80 hours a week and live their lives out of hotels. If the OP is in a place to put in those hours, great, but I suspect otherwise. Other jobs are easier, but pay less.
    Just as a note, got my mba in 2008 from a top 10 school and I agree you get what you pay for, but you’d better be willing to commit to it.
9

I am certainly no spring chicken, but it looks like I am going to be taking an online MBA course starting soon.
!. The school where I teach is paying for all of it.
2. It will most certainly help in my career, as many jobs now require this for any sort of promotion.
3 I like learning, so this will be a challenge and fun at the same time.
4. Why not?

Years ago, in an Ann Landers column, some woman wrote in asking, “I am thinking of going to college, but it will take 4 years and when I finish I will be 47 years old! Should I do it?”
Ann wrote back, “And if you don’t do it, you will still be 47 years old in 4 years, but without a degree.”

10

Its a path to money. If you don’t love business that’s all it is. I see that’s what you are after, per the OP. That’s what I was after too, when I got mine. (I didn’t live in NYC, and would never choose to, so my options were a bit different afterwards.)

As far as the CFA, I studied for it, and never got up the gumption to take test 1. Which has a 50% failure rate the first time. Test 2 (when I looked at it) had (if I recall correctly) a 70% failure rate the first time. You have to like crunching the numbers to go this route. Plus, then you need the work experience to actually get the certification, otherwise you’re just a CFA Candidate level 3 (if you pass that test, which did not have that high of a failure rate, only because the first two really weeded people out.)

Agree heartily with Meerkats points about I-banking (plus, a lot of people in those careers come across as assholes, so don’t think you’ll be working with a bunch of cheerful friendly chaps) and consulting (did it 3 yrs, did not like the travel one bit) are spot on. Finance can completely implode, was 2008 ancient history? a lot of people lost their jobs on wall street.

It is a good path to a corporate finance (FP&A director, VP, CFO), which is what I am choosing.

11

A recent issue of Forbes magazine did an analysis. They looked at forgone salery, costs, and earnings afterwards. Some schools looked better than others. I would dig up the issue,

12

And without 10’s of thousands of debt! Age is important because you have to figure in how many working years you will put in to reap the benefits of paying for college. It doesn’t make financial sense for a 60-year-old to go to college since they won’t be in the workforce long enough to make back the money they spent. They may go for other reasons, but improving their financial situation is not one of them.

13

Hiring - companies that hire from full-time MBA programs are typically looking for young, energetic workaholics that they can abuse for several years. The perfect candidates have 3-5 years of experience, an internship, and an MBA for the typical on-campus interview position.

It CAN be done, but I caution against going to a full-time program expecting to be able to get the same benefit from the career center as the 30 year olds.

14

All those facts are true regardless if the OP goes to business school. I would focus less on the age and more on the type of job/career you want.

Sure, the typical MBA career path is to join the start class at some big name firm and work like a maniac for a few years. If you can do it, a year or so of Goldman Sachs or Accenture doesn’t look bad on your resume. And once you work for any of those companies, it puts you on a different level in terms of jobs you are qualified for. (Namely ones that say "Must have investment banking or top-tier consulting firm experience).

And I have to say, having an MBA during the recent financial crisis over the past couple of years turned out to be a big advantage when job hunting.
Glancing at my $3,000 watch, I just realized I need to wrap up my work in the next hour. I’m taking the girlfriend out for steak at BLT Prime tonight. MBA jobs do have their advantages!:smiley:

15

A friend of mine who is my age (mid 40s) just went back for his MBA and was trying to talk me into starting with him He’ll have $70k worth of debt from his graduate degree. His kids are the same age mine are.

At this point, I’m saving for my kids college (the oldest starts in a mere six years and his sister starts the year after) and starting to think about retiring - not going into debt for my own education. I figure I’m at the peak of my income curve, I’m not going to suddenly be worth that much more with an $70k MBA.

But, unlike miamouse, both he and I are employed. I might think differently if I were not employed and ten years younger.

16

I started my MBA last year. Before that I was a lawyer tenured with a federal agency. My salary/lifestyle was pretty good.

My MBA is the best thing I ever did for myself but because I had a previous professional degree I told myself that I was not going to go to a school ranked lower than the University of Virginia (which I ended up getting into, but not attending). I really wanted to recoup on my investment.

I spent the summer in biotech and can tell you that they paid me more as a bloody intern than the Feds did in my last year as an attorney when I was a GS-fucking-14. Something I had to beg to earn in spite of years of excellent reviews (if you go to HQ in DC you get an automatic GS-14 promotion). Oh, and I also got relocation and free luxury housing when the feds made me pick my ass up and move across the country by myself after sitting for the Bar they didn’t give me one penny for. My biotech asked me to come back in the analytics group, most likely my offer will be made between November to February or something.

I also joined my brother-in-law’s business, which has been a wild ride. We launched and are prepping to raise capital in January. We were already voted by a business journal as a high tech to follow (helps that my bro is an MIT grad but I spent every night of this summer hustling for sales after getting home from my full-time job).

Which is all to say, yes, it’s totally worth it but I wonder if it’s because my MBA program has decent name recognition. I was actually waitlisted at the University of Chicago and even got an interview at Wharton the year I applied (which was a crazy tough year…2009) and was debating waiting it out one more year to see if I could re-apply and get in, but my parents saw how miserable I was as a lawyer and basically told me that I had done well enough. I ended up choosing between UCLA, Virginia, NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Duke and the school I now attend. It was just an impulsive choice.

Now, here’s the down side. I work a lot. Way way way way way more than I ever did before. I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that the chances that I meet someone and get married with the type of schedule I’m expected to keep are slim to none. But it’s work I really love. I have yet to meet a single one of my classmates who makes/made a good salary at a summer internship and didn’t work a minimum of 50 hours a week, so it’s not because I had my side project going either.

There’s also something to be said for whether or not you have the right mindset. I like all my business school classmates just fine, but a professional school atmosphere is not for everyone. Personally, I find them far more personable than the average attorney.

Also, an MBA costs approximately 150K at all the top caliber schools, maybe a bit more for the New York schools. That’s tuition plus housing.

17

Also, look at how much money whatever government entity you’re thinking about actually pays and run a cost-benefit analysis. The attorneys often come out on top in federal agencies (GS-11 --> GS-12 --> GS-13 --> GS-14 automatic level increases at my agency if you’re accepted into the honors graduate program). I made 55K as a newly minted attorney in my first year in the honors hiring program and did not hit six figures until the GS-14 stage. I am skeptical that they are going to graduate a Masters person to a GS-14 salary as a new hire, although man, lucky you if you can find that agency. They usually like to keep most of the masters people down near a 9 or a 10 when they are first hired. People making 6 figures at federal agencies have usually been there a while.

18

Thanks all for the responses, I’ve been at part-time-seasonal all weekend.

I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but I included my age and gender intentionally, because I know what the real world is like, not the world on paper that says everything should be fair.

I wanted to hear the warts and all version of the industr(ies) and that includes war stories of possible intern-abuse, glass ceiling, old-boys club, etc… Gov’t was mentioned as an option because I will accept sponsorship for the exams from whoever is hiring. (I will shove my foot in any door left open wide enough, lol.)

It looks like the best option for me is turning out to be the actuary route, which seems like it’s about 4 years, can be insurance or finance industry, the median salary is good for a single earner household, and the outlook articles seem hopeful. 50 hours a week is something I am well used to if that’s what’s common. I’ve checked out some of the practice exam questions online and while they look like they’ll get complicated, my interest will be kept high by the puzzle factor. I’ll be heading to Borders (if there are any still open) to see if they have practice exam books.

About my choice of schools, Baruch seems ranked well, is affordable and in Manhattan, so there’s a likelihood that I can transfer my part-time-seasonal to their West Side location. Same goes for NYU, except that I’ll be paying for it until retirement.

Further questions:
Will me being in college concurrent with one of my kids (in 2-3 years) affect either of our chances for financial aid?

While an Actuary can get a masters is it required/expected/mandatory for success?

I’ve ordered my transcript from my first college, filled out the FAFSA and NYS equivalent, and am now researching what scholarships/grants pertain to me. What’s next? Is the admissions process different for an adult years out of HS? (It would seem kind of silly to me to have to send them a 20 year old HS transcript and SAT scores.)

19

They will need that HS transcript - even if you are 97 years old and went to a one-room high school in Butthole, Montana - mandatory data for any admission to any college.

20

No. In fact, there’s almost no payoff for any advanced degree in a traditional insurance position. Consulting positions may place a little value on a master’s degree, but not enough to really make the cost/benefit ratio work out in your favor. If you want to be an actuary, almost nothing matters except passing exams.

As to actuary vs. CFA, it’s a little tough to say. Each individual CFA exam is probably tougher than a single lower-level exam, but there are many more actuarial exams, and the upper-level ones are probably much harder than the CFA exams. A large part of the reason why actuarial gigs look so sweet is because so few people can make it through the examination process. Going from zero to credentialed in four years is by no means a sure thing.

The bottom line is that you need to do your homework and find out what you’re getting into before you commit to a career path. For actuarial stuff, there’s no better resource than the Actuarial Outpost, who will largely tell you the same things that I have.

Edit: In fact, if you’re even thinking about being an actuary, sign up for an exam now and start studying. There’s no better way to get a very clear picture of what the path is like. Details are available here.