I belive Eve and I (and, I as a scroll down, gobear as well) would disagree with you.
And if you thinks that’s a flippent answer…you’re mistaken. Art (which includes movies) has a least as much power to illuminate and transform lives as religeon does.
Is TBN the channel that still runs Robert Tilton? I caught him on some Christian channel late one night, and he was still doing the squinting-for-Jesus routine. Being a big fan of the Farting Preacher videos, I took the opportunity to add some of my own sound effects in real time to his sermon.
Yeah, I made farty noises in front of the TV for a good 20 minutes.
That is the most vile, sacreligious, blasphemous and offensive web-site that I have ever wished I created (though this is a close second).
Speaking of TBN, one of their newest freak shows that gives me paralytis remotis when channel surfing is the psychotic black she-minister. I don’t know her name, but at first I thought it was Willona from Good Times jumping on the "my career left me but Jesus bought me [some/[URL=http://www.black-sabbath.de/lyrics/seventh.jpg]more URL] airtime born again has-been celebrities , but thankfully for my unblemished memories of Good Times it wasn’t. However, if a Willona-ish black woman is ever screaming and jumping up and down while Jan and the other members of the Court of Big Haired Women cry and jiggle behind her, spare a moment and watch (especially if you’re a Psych major studying manic episodes).
The woman’s stories are absolutely insane and screeched into the phone and are always about money. God talks to her in an audible voice more than he ever talked to pre-Lithiumized Patty Duke and gives her bizarre business advice: “Give your Mercedes to the homeless woman”… “Take the $30,000 you just got unexpectedly and give it to your pastor and I will bless it ten-fold” “Take your only son and throw him to the hyenas at the San Diego Zoo and I will give thee a coupon for a free Double Cheese Krystal” type shit and half the time she doesn’t even resolve them (so what happened when you gave the homeless woman your Mercedes? Why not sell the Mercedes and buy Saturns for five homeless women? Are you sure the woman had a valid driver’s license? etc.). She’s usually brought on during the beg-a-thons and the crowd goes ecstatic, but I can’t shake the feeling that her ride is waiting backstage.
Speaking of Tammy Faye & Jan’s resemblance, did you know they hate each other with a passion? The Bakkers and the Crouch’s started the network together 30+ years ago, but by both the Bakkers accounts and the accounts of objective reporters, the Crouchs totally screwed the Bakkers out of the place by spreading rumors and calling for a vote of elders and some odd financial dealings (thus sending the Bakkers to work for Pat Robertson and then found PTL). Many believe that Jerry Falwell’s offer to “steward” PTL during its troubles had quite a bit to do with the fact that unlike him they owned a satellite (which is now his). It is as cutthroat as any other big business and aided by the fact they don’t have to worry about taxes or financial disclosure.
My absolute favorite moments on TBN have all been Jan moments though. I swear to Og all these are true:
*when she told about how when she was a little girl and her pet chicken Cheap-Cheap (she was always a clever gal) was run over by a truck and she was in despair, God did what any nice supernatural daddy would do and rose the chicken from the dead. (He could do that for the mothers whose babes have died of malnutrition, leukemia and AIDS too I’m sure, but they don’t amuse him as much.)
*When her father, a church organist, died of “diabeetus” and her mother despaired over how “her and we children [sic]” would live and then they heard organ music and went into the sanctuary to find (the following is an exact quote) “my daddy was playing with his organ!”- after experimenting with chickens God was ready for an organist, you see
*The vision Satan gave her when she was suffering from suicidal depression- the following is not verbatim as I don’t have a transcript, but on my gonads it is very true to the spirit of what she said [and she definitely said the part about the fingernails]:
Jan [sobbing violently]:"*… and Satan showed me what was to become of me… he showed me this horrible place with people screaming… and it was an institution of some sort… and there in the corner was this…horrible… filthy… ragged… thing…at first I wasn’t sure it was human… it’s hair was matted, and it was wearing a straight-jacket and unable to move… and it was sobbing and forlorned… and its nose was running and its face was dirty and its fingernails were long and uncut and filthy… and I realized… *drumroll please- you’ll never guess *“it was mmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
At this moment I and every gay Alabamian watching that night immediately bolted upright and said “How the fuck do you know what the fingernails looked like if you were in a fucking STRAIGHT JACKET!” (we literally started calling each other to laugh and share and “My God are you watching this?”). Wonderful performance art, though overpaid.
And while there to use the bathroom, might as well have a drink or two… (which he did).
And while having a drink or two, might as well kill an hour…
He was literally there long enough that one of the patrons recognized him, called a friend (author and gay activist Wayne Besen) to say “You will never guess who’s here!”( and for Besen to get dressed, take the train from his Georgetown apartment, come into the bar, and confront Paulk (or more exactly, be-back him- hit the enlargement of the picture of Besen’s {excellent} book for a picture of Paulk literally running away). Over the next few days he changed his story constantly, from “I didn’t know it was a gay bar” (the old reliable of “straight” guys, though Paulk had been there when he was openly gay) to “I only went to use the bathroom” to finally “I was under great stress and in a moment of weakness I needed to feel a sense of belonging” (never mind that he said the reason he “quit” being gay was because he wanted… a sense of belonging). If dumbass had just told an intelligent lie… “I went there to see how the gay crowd has changed, and perhaps see if I could minister to any of the young ones… preferably a nice strawberry blonde twink with visible ribs but a bubble butt”) it would have gone so much better for him, but instead Big Daddy Dobson even got disgusted and removed him from Exodus (the umpteenth executive expelled from that Holy Order for backsliding).
Re: Paul’s gay lawsuit, he swears that he paid the $425,000 not to silence the man but on the advice of his lawyers as [paraphrasing] it would cost that much to fight it in court and the damage it could do the ministry would cost more than that in contributions and there are little starving chirren in countries TBN supports who would die, blah blah yadda babba. You could drive a million Israelites through the holes in this (it would not cost $425K to have the man arrested for blackmail [which it was], unlike his accuser he has an audience of millions and can do immediate damage control, if the guy were lying Paul could ask him to name dates and times and then show where he was or wasn’t at the time, etc.).
I remember another lawsuit that had something to do with a FCC violation in which Paul and Jan swore to their TV audience they had done nothing wrong, but that their prayers had been answered and they could settle this for an out of court settlement far less than the damages sought. This begs the question “If you’ve done nothing wrong and the Lord is on your side, why not go to court? Why settle even if it’s for a penny?”
As I mentioned in a recent Pit Thread on Benny Hinn, as disgusted as I am with the Televangelists, my true contempt is for their followers. While the televangetubbies do not deserve the luxuries and power their corruption affords them, I think people stupid enough to send in their widow’s mites to pay for jet fuels and Malibu compounds deserve to be robbed.
Oops!
This is Besen’s book. (Chuck Norris was on clipboard from an earlier post elsewhere.)
Get back to me after you’ve watched an Audrey Hepburn tribute. You can’t tell me that watching Gregory Peck stare down the jury and say, “By God, do your duty,” that something doesn’t stir inside. And oh, why can’t we have men like Cary Grant nowadays?
And your point is? I know people that only will read Left Behind books. It doesn’t make them better, it just makes them ignorant fools.
If you MUST watch religious programming, why not EWTN? Then you can laugh at the Pirate Nun!
BTW, is TBN the one that runs Kirk Cameron’s fundy wankfest?
Won’t God strike you down for doing that in church?
FCC violation? What did they do-show Jesus on the cross with a too small loin cloth?
Besen’s site is a very interesting look into the whole “ex-gay” cult. (He’s cute, too. Yeah, I know, he likes dick, but so do I and a gal can look, right?)
He’s even cuter in person (I’ve seen him speak a couple of times). His book, while a bit too self-referential, is on the short list (Top 5) I recommend to people beginning to research modern gay issues, going beyond the “ex-gay cults” (as you perfectly identify them) into dissections of Paul Cameron and other far-right ignorantia. (You can usually find the book very cheaply on half.com or overstock or other discount sites.)
START, I’m going to be polite. You’ve said you want to stop being a lout and change your ways, and I’ll assume you’re telling the truth, despite some very loutish behaviour you and your friends have indulged in. Remember, I’m as devout, hard-core a Christian as anyone in your church. I sincerely and profoundly believe that God saved my life once and my life continues to depend on my faith. I am also proud that I once helped get Robert Tilton off the air.
Do me a favor. Go to this website and read it. The Trinity Foundation, the organization I linked to, is a group of devout Christians down in Dallas, Texas who started out with a simple mission: feed and shelter the homeless. When the FCC changed the rules making it legal for televangelists to broadcast, they also started monitoring Christian broadcasting. They were shocked at what they saw. Look, if you don’t want to read the entire website, at least read this page on the investigations they’ve conducted of televangelists. These are neither people nor Christians, at least not in their behaviour. They apparently misread Christ’s command to Peter, “Feed my sheep” as “*Fleece * my sheep.” I’m not saying nice people don’t watch televangelists – one of the nicer people I know, the wife of my father’s former office mate does, and no, she doesn’t know what I think of televangelists. Please allow me to quote a bit from Trinity’s FAQ about televangelist investigations page.
You tell me televangelists have brought people to Jesus, therefore people should cut them some slack. Are you also aware that they have driven people away from Christianity and made them hostile to it? I am a devout Christian because my church was the one place in town where I could go and not get picked on and insulted when I was a teenager (something to consider next time you and your friends are thinking about picking on someone or making fun of them). If it weren’t for that church, I’d probably be as vocal an atheist or pagan as we’ve got around here, denouncing Christians for hypocrisy. I still call Christians on it, but at least I know that there are some who aren’t. I know a lot of people who’ve been driven away from Christianity because they were treated cruelly or obnoxiously by Christians. If a televangelist draws one person to Christ, but drives off ten, is he still doing good? I suggest you re-read Matthew 15, particularly verses 14 and 15 in which Jesus says:
Somehow, I don’t think televangelists quote these verses much, although I’d welcome evidence to the contrary. I’ll even pass it along to the Trinity Foundation.
As for you, gobear, my friend to paraphrase a good movie, why do you torture yourself like this? That’s my job! 
CJ
Now you can download all of your favorite movies.
Ooh, ooh, I GOTS to watch them when I get home. I LOVE those movies! They inspire me to ask so many deep questions about life, such as, what the HELL happened to Michael York’s career? Playing second banana in the Austin Powers movies was something of a comedown for an actor who used to be on the hottest leading men in the 1970s, but starring in fundie wankfests? Maybe he needed to make a house payment or was in arrears in alimony? And when is Caspar Van Dien going to show his exquisitely carved backside in a movie again? That’s the chief reason why I own Starship Troopers!
It’s not torture, my dear, it’s appreciation of good old fashioned camp, which idealizes the genuinely clueless and awful in the “it’s so bad it’s good” aesthetic. TBN is so delightfully tacky precisely because they are so serious and yet naive in their programs. Look at Jan Crouch’s billowing mounds of cotton candy wig and tell me that isn’t a face made to be imitated by legions of drag queens!
Good god almighty! She makes Dolly Parton look subtle and demure!
The televangelists have only one thing on their minds - how to separate fools from their money. They are not there to save souls or help anyone but themselves. They are liars and con artists.
“Why does God need a starship”
or to change jut slightly,
“Why does God need money”
Same basic question, same answer - he doesn’t need either. If you believe anything in the bible, you have to conclude he seemed to be pretty much anti-greed and anti-money.
I was watching TBN today and there was some “Smile of a Child” special give-money-a-thon hosted by the “cocker spaniel” lady (forgive me for not knowing her name) and I swear it was the most awful ploy EVER DEVISED to try and get people to send money. Here’s a recap of what she said:
“And we had boxes of toys, trucks for the boys and dolls for the little girls, and we had 2,000 toys. But they told us that there were going to be more children than we had expected. There were 6,000 children coming and we only had 2,000 toys. So we just started handing out toys, and I reached into the last box and grabbed the last toy, a doll, and I gave it to a little girl and when I looked up I saw that she was the last child! They all had gotten a toy! Just like Jesus made the loaves and the fishes feed 5,000 people, Jesus had multiplied the toys to make enough for 6,000 children!”
Yeah. So if Jesus magically multiplies crap for the children, guess we don’t need to give TBN any money. Just bring one toy over to Africa (because the starving kids there need dolls more than anything, ya know. More than food and clean drinking water) and Jesus will intervene and MULTIPLY the toys and all will be right with the world!
And what’s ironic about such things as the magic toybox above is that the same people will condemn voodoo and other forms of magic as blasphemous and satanic. What is a regenerating toybox if not magic?
One of the craziest is Robert Tilton (who even after two messy divorces and countless exposès and successful lawsuits proving fraud against him, etc., still rakes in millions and millions per year [he used to take in over $100 M per year but scandals have reduced that to only about $10-20 M, poor thing). He’s absolutely talismanic; somehow I was on his mailing list for a while (or actually I think the person who was at an apartment before me was) and I had to open everything he sent out of morbid curiosity. There would be “holy cloths”- little scraps of blue cloth with a Bible verse crudely printed- and instructions to pray while holding it, sleep with it under your pillow and send it back to him with a “love offering” (the love offering is in a separate envelope of course). He’d send similar things with regularity: bizarre, almost nightmarish pictures of the tortured Jesus with instructions on how to fold it, write your prayer on it, etc. , widow’s mite replicas to carry in your wallet for a day and then send back with your “love offering”, etc.- the difference between this and pouring a cup of whiskey for your Santeria Saint statue is negligible at best, and yet he still earns millions from what has to be tens of thousands of small offerings. (One of the many primetime investigations revealed the reason the love offering is sent in a separate envelope- the ones filled with the papers, prayers, etc., were thrown away while the others were forwarded to his accountants and sent straight to the bank.)
I wonder how much of the cash that is sent in envelopes to the addresses never sees the bank but either flies to the Caymans or goes home with the letter openers. (I do remember that Jim Bakker was smart enough to scam millions but not smart enough to hide any, and when he fled PTL he was broke in a matter of weeks; I’m sure some have learned from his lesson.)
Speaking of PTL, wasn’t old drippy eyes new husband busted for something not too long ago?
Tammy Faye Bakker’s head was put in a vise? There is a God!
Wow, now there’s a flashback. I remember my pastor had one of those tapes back about 1988, and we watched it five or six times. Laughed so hard I think I farted myself.
Tammie Faye Baker Messner is the one person among the lot of them I have any respect for. Perhaps because she’s the only one of the lot who acts like a Christian, when the rubber meets the road.
Actually, Tammi Faye has become sort of a gay icon, from what I gather. Who’d’ve thunk it?
She was, believe it or not, the first media person to interview a HIV+ gay person on any daytime talk show, and she was not an all judgmental. She talked about the stigma of the disease, the physical symptoms, etc… (This was ca. 1985 when there were still so many misconceptions about the illness and when PTL was still in good shape.) I agree with the above- she’s the best of the lot even if she is crazy. For those who haven’t seen the documentary, it puts a very positive spin on her (though I still resent the luxury of her lifestyle when PTL was at its height.)
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