He who is not born of a teenage mother, or father, or has not had sex with, or as a teenager, cast the first stone.
Teen pregnancy is wonderful. My wife was 19 when she became pregnant with our first child.
Of course, we were already married at the time.
Unwed teen pregnancy is a much different situation. It’s irresponsible, and to a degree you can blame the unmarried teen parents. On the other hand, Western culture since the sixties has been pushing the idea that people need not be responsible for their actions, so why blame the kids for actually receiving the message?
And of course, despite the ribbing Dan Quayle took for saying it, it doesn’t help that many recent female popular culture icons have been intentionally having babies with no intention that the childrens’ fathers be in their lives. They neglect to mention that they’re already zillionaires and most single parents aren’t in a situation to give their baby any kind of decent life.
Should they keep the baby? Only if they have the necessary support (financial as well as emotional). Do they do it on purpose? Well, they have sex on purpose. For the most part, they don’t bother thinking about the consequences until it’s too late.
Chaim Mattis Keller
ckeller@kozmo.com
“Sherlock Holmes once said that once you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be
the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it that the merely improbable lacks.”
– Douglas Adams’s Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective
Handy, I wasn’t born to a teenage mother or father, and I’ve never had sex with or as a teenager. Nonetheless, I’m not interested in throwing stones, and I don’t see anybody else here throwing stones either. In some circles it isn’t cool to have old-fashioned morals, so you may know more people like me than you realize.
Regarding date rape: it’s very common for people to say, “What was she doing in his hotel room?” (remember Desiree Washington) or “Why did she get drunk in a boy’s dorm?” or whatever; how many of us specifically warn our daughters not to get into circumstances where they may have to defend themselves physically? This one I haven’t really tackled yet, because my daughter is still adult-supervised all the time. I think a lot of people expect girls to have common sense about that sort of thing (and really, they should) but peer-pressure kicks in and they don’t want to look like Miss Prim-and-proper.
okay, I have to reply to this. I tried to stay out of this, because I don’t normally agree with people who think such things about teenage mothers. I do agree that some of them do stupid things, like bet on who can have a baby first. Now that is really strange, but I do not doubt that it happened.
My problem is with the statement that they are ALL irresponsible. I was very responsible. I went to the doctor and took my pill. I still got pregnant. Granted, we were already engaged. I just don’t see how that can be called irresponsible. I did what the teachers taught me in sex ed!
Also, I did not get pregnant on purpose. Granted, I had sex on purpose, but I also took precautions against pregnancy. BTW, I was a “surprise”. My parents had been married for 6 years and my mother was on the pill.
I am new here and I am not trying to upset anyone. I just do not agree with those statements.
Just A Girl, I don’t think people are really referring to your situation. They’re responding to (I think - please correct me if I’m wrong) the picture the media has given us of teenage moms. Girls who have to drop out of school to take care of their kids but can’t make enough money with their 10th grade education to support them, end up on the street, and the cycle repeats with the child. While I don’t doubt that this happens, I know that there are plenty of teenage moms who are excellent parents. My best friend from high school is my age (21) and has a three-year-old son. She never had unprotected sex. It’s taking her about twice as long as is standard, but she’ll be getting her A.A. in Engineering soon. The father has never seen her son, and she is doing an admirable job raising him. She’s a good mommy.
Do I think teeange pregnancy is a good idea? Of course not. But it doesn’t have to be the end of a life. Best of luck to all the young parents (heck, all parents) here. You have my admiration.
Your situation is remarkable, Just_a_Girl, since the reported reliability rate for birth control pills is over 99%. Consider yourself an exception and any criticism not to be directed towards you.
Now then, if we can count on contraceptives to be reliable in most cases, I would say the issue is not so much why young people are choosing to have sex as why they are neglecting to use contraceptives. Sexual activity for younger teenagers remains an issue, and there are some girls who get pregnant deliberately due to peer culture or as a short-cut to a sense of importance. And although more can be done to make birth control more available, sheer availability doesn’t appear to be the problem. My guess is that the endlessly controversial nature of premarital sex, the guilt, shame, and embarrassment that’s sloshed about, is enough to intimidate young women from acquiring contraceptives, though not from actually engaging in sex. It’s tough to face the pharmacy clerk with a tacit and public admission that you plan on having sex, or sometimmes even admit it to yourself by planning ahead vis-a-vis the menstrual cycle. But to be swept up in a moment of passion (as in Titianic and Shakespeare in Love mentioned above) is more morally palatable.
Now I do agree with that. I think that many teenagers are embarrassed because there is such a stigma attached to premarital sex, especially where I live.
I had wonderful parents that were not afraid to talk to me about sex. They did not want me to do it, but they wanted me to be prepared. I want to state again that I was in college and basically self supporting when I got pregnant. My parents did help me, because I could not work for the last 4 months of my pregnancy for medical reasons.
I want to clear up a point. I am not advocating premartal sex. I was just saying that not ALL cases are the same. I do tend to be a bit touchy on this subject for the reasons that I stated in my first post here. I was probably just being overly sensitive.
What matters most is how you see yourself.
Originally posted by Asmodean:
Of course, as others on this thread have pointed out, it takes two to get pregnant. Why was the other girl having unprotected sex with this 16-year-old boy?
Hey, I get permission to rant!
Didn’t have sex (actual intercourse)till I was 23. Not for religious reasons (I’m an athiest) Just scared to death I’d get a girl pregnant.
(Just for the record, I married at 25 and had my first child at 27) And I think it would have been better to wait till I was a little older.
Nearly a decade later, I’ve begun to realize a few things that I would have earlier thought to be sexist on my part. Girls “also” have hormones that directly effect their thought processes. (in the 80’s, just thinking such a thing would make you a true chauvanist pig.)
Some girls do get pregnant on purpose.
(consiously or unconsiously)
Guys have to be “very” careful. Women may have to actually carry the baby, but they have the choice of very reliable birth control, morning after pill, abortion and giving the child up for adoption. None of these are available, or are things the father has any control over. Whether that’s fair or not, its something that needs to be hammered home to males.
And pardon my plagerism, but “Whats Love got to do with it!?” If your a teen, it doesn’t matter if your really in love!
And marriage doesn’t “automatically” make things any better. A paper certificate won’t protect you from unwanted pregnancy, disease or heart break. Only mature, adult, commitment has any chance of doing that. And from what I’ve seen, marriage has little to do with that. That’s not to say marriage is nessesarily bad, just that it is nearly usless as most people use it today. And since child support is required, regaurdless of marriage, a marriage certificate is only legaly useful as a “quasi-prostitution” early retirement program. (unless it’s pre-ammended with a really good prenuptual agreement.) But now I’m way off topic…
I could be wrong…It happend once before.
Continuing my thought about warning girls - how about warning boys about false accusations of date rape. I don’t know what’s worse: “I was so drunk I didn’t know what was happening, and he took advantage of me!” or “Here was this girl I didn’t know from Eve’s off-ox, so I figured I’d scr-w her!” Are these situations not equally stupid? Are kids getting these warnings?
Just-a-girl, there are circumstances that make the pill less effective. Taking antibiotics is one. Doctors don’t always warn you about that. We’re aware of the possibility of a pregnancy while I’m on the pill, but I figure that if it happens, it was meant to be. I’ll be 40 this year, though, and the thought of running after a toddler at this time of my life is not thrilling, to say the least.
I don’t believe you.
I don’t like peas.
Some great points! I’m gonna quote a bit, then make my point.
Ok, enough. I think the point we’re all dancing around here, and the issue that this debate often seems to miss is this: Sex is natural. Sex is fun.( I like it, I’ll bet you do too) We, as human beings, are programed to have sex. In the past, the time frame of your life when you bacame sexualy active coinsided nicely with the time you got married. Nowadays, it dosent. As humans, when we reach the age of 12-14, we are physically ready to have sex. Emotionally is another matter. In the past, this was the age when we would get married, and the consiquenses of sex would be forced upon the individual * along with all the other issues we are forced to deal with as we grow up.* Today, we as a society cherish youth. We give our kids a longer and longer childhood. Hell, I didn’t graduate college and “become an adult” until I was 26!( and if I could have only made it last longer…College was fun! This being an adult sucks! 
) The point is, while we have moved “adulthood” to a later point in our lives, we forgot to tell our bodies! We are still ready to have sex at 14. Is it any wonder that kids are doing it? I think society needs to do two things: #1, we need to remove the stigma from sex in the teens. I don’t think it is any more shocking for a teen to have sex than it is for a teen to eat. #2 we need to systimaticly prepair kids for the act. They need to be educated about the consiquenses, both emotionaly and physically, of having sex. If sex was treated as natural and not dirty, I think it is reasonable to make kids want to put it off until their late teens, when they are more prepaired to deal with it. We have this wonderful thing called an intelect, which allows us to weigh the pros and cons of our actions. If everyone accepted sex as a natural part of life, then maybe we could chose how to make it a rewarding part of life, rather then being forced into it by out hormones and regretting it. As I have grown up, I have found that my dad’s mantra of responsibility aplies to everything. 
And for anyone who wonders about the perspective I’m coming from, I’m 33.
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
How right you are, Weirddave. The fact that society cannot agree on a resonable set of rules concerning sex and remians highly superstitious about it is the root of the problem. Kids are making up their own rules because expecting them to wait until marriage is expecting way too much.
How true Sqweels! Not only is it probably expecting too much, but I don’t even think it’s a good idea! Like waiting until your married to dicuss your plans for career, children and where you want to live. (allthough I suppose I admire the attempts at chastity to a point)
I tell my daughter that if she’s serious about a boy, they should go to the doctor as a couple, get blood tests and make sure their birth control is in order. And then start experimenting! OOoooo…I just got the same cold shiver I did when I actually told her that! But I know that logically its the best route, no matter what my “protective papa” hormones try to tell me.
(for the record she is 18, and is currently sure that she is going to wait till marriage to have sex)
I also think that it would be quite possible to bring together the warring factions of conservatives and liberals,(at least somewhat) on the issue of sex education in this country. Starting with how hormones effect logical thinking(on a conscious and subconcious level)They are practically a mind altering drug for pete sake! There are about a dozen other very important points to be made before you even get to the subject of “condoms” vs. “abstinance”.
I could be wrong…It happend once before.
bossbuster wrote:
I didn’t have sex until I was 21 (although I did get to 3rd base when I was 20). Not for religious reasons (I too am an atheist), not for fear of getting a girl pregnant (I had contraceptives waiting on stand-by alert) – but because I just couldn’t find a girl/woman who wanted to “do it” with me.
Now I’m 34, and I still can’t find a woman who’s interested in me. sigh Such is the curse of a male living in the Silicon Valley, where where are something like 100,000,000,000,000,000 men for every woman.
In response to NOTTHEMAMA
While I am working, most of the time Juliette’s dad is watching her and if he isn’t watching her either my mom or his mom is. Her dad sees her almost every single day same with his mom and my mom. Both of her grandfather live quite a bit away.
She has seen David’s dad around 5-10 times.
She has never seen my dad.( he lives in europe.)
Also I just want to say something about someones comment that if you have a child when you are not married it is wrong.
I really don’t understand how going through a wedding and having a legal paper really changes anything about your financial and emotional responsabilities as a parent and how that affects how you are as a parent.
I am not married and I am a very good mother.Juliette still sees her father alot and they are very close.
For example say there are an unmarried mother and father living together with their child.They work, come home, clean,cook,take care of their child, bring their child to school etc.
That’s what basically almost everyone does.
Ok then there is a married couple with a child. They do the same thing as the unmarried couple,clean cook ect.
But the only difference is that they have a paper saying they’re married.
really there is no difference.
One more thing,
what if there is a married couple and they have a kid, but then they get divorced. Is that wrong? If anyone disagrees I’d like to hear their point of view.
Divorce is why you shouldent get married. (legally)
cmkeller
No, it’s not. Teenagers tend to be less mature, have lower incomes, and generally not be able to take care of children as well as older people. Now granted there are exceptions, and if you and your wife were able to complete your educational goals and get satisfactory jobs, and if you were really emotionally prepared for having a child, then that’s fine. But that is not true for the majority of teenagers, even when they’re married. Furthermore, teenage marriages tend to not last longer as marriages between older people.
Just_A_Girl_26
Taking the Pill does not absolve you of responsibility. Granted, it’s better than nothing, but it’s not 100% effective. You seem to be saying that since you did what you were told to do, you’re not responsible for the consequences. I’m not condemming you; you did try to prevent pregnancy, and it sounds like you’re taking good care of your child. Was what you did evil? Definitely not. Was what you did wrong? That’s a question I’m still struggling with. Is what you did bad (in the sense that it would have been better if you hadn’t done it)? It certainly seems that way to me, but then I guess you’re a better judge than me.
weirddave
No, we don’t. That stigma is there for a reason. Perhaps we should tone it down, but we shouldn’t eliminate it.
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I don’t think it is any more shocking for a teen to have sex than it is for a teen to eat.
[/quote]
Seeing as how the former helps the teen, and the latter can harm the teen, perhaps you should.
juliettesmommy99
First of all, if you’re not mature enough to get married, you’re probably not mature enough to have children. Secondly, marriage is a commitment to support each other in raising children. Part of fulfilling your responsibility to your children is making sure that other people fulfill their responsibilities towards your children, and one of the ways to do that is to get married. Getting married provides your children with two incomes instead of only one, and it provides your children with one more person they can count on. Furthermore, it makes your life more stable, making it easier for you to provide the guidance that your children need. I certainly disagree with cmkeller, however; getting married doesn’t magically make one capable of raising a child, it just makes it somewhat easier.
It definitely is something that people should do their best to avoid. If you allay your uncertainties about whether you should get married with the idea that “Well, if this doesn’t work out, we can just get divorced”, that’s definitely wrong.
First of all, I never said that taking the Pill absolved me of all responsibility. I live with that responsibility every day of my life. My point was that I was trying to be responsible and practice safe sex. I did not just have sex without thinking about the consequences. I did not make a bet with my friends regarding who could get pregnant first! I DID think about it and took steps to prevent it.
Was it wrong? Was it bad? What kind of questions are these? Who are you to say what is wrong or bad? That is a personal opinion. Have you never done anything that other people think is wrong?
I could have had an abortion. I could have let someone else adopt my son. My parents would have supported me in any decision that I made. But, I did not. I took RESPONSIBILITY for my actions and decided to raise my son, no matter how hard it would be. I chose to leave my carefree college days behind and become a mother.
I do not see how you could take my statement and think that I do not think I am responsible. That is not what I was saying at all.
What matters most is how you see yourself.