TEEN PREGNANCY your opinions

Great Debates
41

Okay, I’m a grown-up, married woman with two kids. I’ve also had an abortion, and given a child up for adoption.

Maybe this is a sign that I’m becoming a fuddy-duddy, but why remove the stigma of teens having sex? Why remove the stigma of teen motherhood? If it is thought to be a Very Bad Thing, perhaps there would be a little less of it?

Of course, sex is not a Bad Thing. I had lots of it when I was a teenager (the abortion and the adoption did not occur until I was an adult, well out of high school, BTW). But perhaps then, if I had the idea that I would be thought a horrible slut for having sex, maybe I wouldn’t have done it. None of my friends made me feel bad for it. None of the boys called me names.

It is a very confusing issue still, and I’m 32 years old. My daughter is three years old, and my son is 6 months old. I have been practicing for a few years now on what I’m going to say about sex. Yipes. I don’t want to come off as a prude, but I don’t want to be a wuss, either.

A story to share, then I’ll end this ramble. I mentioned that I gave a child up for adoption. We have an open adoption, so I do still have a relationship with my daughter. Her adoptive parents adopted another child, a boy. They wanted to adopt one more. A teenage girl chose them to adopt the child she was pregnant with. This girl was in a parenting class at her high school, with thirty–yes, thirty–other pregnant teens. This girl was also the only one in the class who had made an adoption plan. This adoption never happened. You know why? Peer pressure.

It’s a tough situation young girls face today, and I have got to say, I am glad I am not a young girl.

(an aside to juliettesmommy–stop referring to yourself as a “teen mom.” Now that your baby is here, you’re just a regular old mom, just like the rest of us. :))

Cristi, Slayer of Peeps

I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.

(title & sig courtesy of UncleBeer and WallyM7!)

42

Okay, I reread my previous post and I would like to make a clarification. I am not opposed to adoption or abortion. I just chose to keep my child.

I do believe that alot of young girls do not consider adoption because of peer pressure. This was not the case in my situation. I married my childhood sweetheart. I have known him since I was 12 years old, so I thought that it would work. I was wrong and I am dealing with that. As I said before, I grew up and he did not. He is a wonderful father, just not a great husband.

What matters most is how you see yourself.

43

Just_A_Girl_26:

They are questions entrirely appropiate in a thread entitled “TEEN PREGNANCY your opinions”. If you don’t want to see people discussing them, then don’t come to a thread like this one.

Why does it matter who I am? Don’t I have a right to my opinion?

I don’t think that io ever suggested otherwise.

If only perfect people felt entitled to discuss how people should act, then it would never be discussed, and soon we would have anarchy.

I’m not sure what your intent was, but you definitely gave the impression that you consider yourself superior to other teen mothers. You also gave the impression that you believed that if you did what you were told to do in Sex Ed, you would not become pregnant.

44

How about leaving a “little” stigma for teenage sex, and we really start piling on the stigma for irresponsible sex.

Allthough I don’t nessesarily like the term “stigma”, because it implies to some, that all we have to do is then call it bad, stupid, evil, immoral etc… without explaining the logical real world implications to parent and child and society.

I don’t think that going back to “pure” stigma alone will help. Playing religious hardball and saying that you have to wait till your married, will just lead to a bunch of kids getting married at 18 so they can finally have sex without guilt.

I could be wrong…It happend once before

45

First of all, Ryan, you did not say was “it” wrong. You said “was what YOU did wrong?” I did take that personally. I do not think that I gave any impression that I thought that I was superior. I was making the statement that not all teens get pregnant through irresponsible behavior. Some do actually try to prevent it. And, yes, I did think that if I did what I was taught that I would not get pregnant. I was wrong, just as you are wrong to think that I even implied that I am superior.

I never said you were not entitled to your opinion. It seems that you do not like mine either. You need to get off that high horse that you are riding there. IIRC, you were the first one to throw this at me. I was responding to what you said. I am not sure why you did this, but you did nonetheless.

I did not come in here to do this. I came in here to let others know just what I said.

What matters most is how you see yourself.

46

First of all, Ryan, you did not say was “it” wrong. You said “was what YOU did wrong?” I do not believe that is debating teen pregnancy. IMO, that is debating my life and I did take that personally. I do not think that I gave any impression that I thought that I was superior to anyone. I was making the statement that not all teens get pregnant through irresponsible behavior. Some do actually try to prevent it. And, yes, I did think that if I did what I was taught that I would not get pregnant. I was wrong, just as you are wrong to think that I even implied that I am superior.

I never said you were not entitled to your opinion. It seems that you do not like or repect mine either. You need to get off that high horse that you are riding there. IIRC, you were the first one to throw this at me. I was responding to what you said. I am not sure why you did this, but you did nonetheless.

I did not come in here to do argue with you. I came in here to let others know just what I said.

47

Cristi said:

Please note that these are two different things. What I’m advocating is more along the lines of this:

If you care to reread my post, I said it all comes down to responsibility. Tenns are going to have sex. That’s only natural. What I am proposing is that we make sure they do it in as intellegent a maner as possible. Teach them How to protect themselves, Why sex should be entered into with care, When it’s apropriate and What it can mean. We also need to foster a system that nurtures the young mothers and their children when unwanted pregnancies occur, and also makes adoption a positive alternative, not a negative one. I’ve always said this: Your Right:Choice. Your Right Choice: Adoption. While it’s not true across the board, ( Juliette’s Mommy and Just_A_Girl seem to be doing fine ) adoption is a better solution than the one chosen a majority of the time.
Oh, and Cristi, you said:

We’re the same age, wher the hell were you when I was a teenager??? :wink: :wink:

Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.

48

Just_A_Girl_26

You know, I’m willing to make allowances for other people’s feelings, but this is getting absurd. I specifically said “I’m not condemming you” and “I guess you’re a better judge than me [about what’s best for you],” and yet you still insist on acting as if I’ve insulted you. Are we discussing your life? Well, we’re discussing teen pregnancy, and you were a teen parent, so we are discussing your life. What are we supposed to do? Have a thread entitled “TEEN PREGNANCTY (excepting Just_A_Girl_26) your opinions”?

“There are some really irresponsible people out there. But I’m not one of them. Oh, no, not me. I’m very responsible.” You don’t see how that could be interpreted as expressing superiority?

The first is a matter of fact, the second a matter of opinion. They are hardly “just” the same. As soon as there’s an entire new human being to be taken care of as a result of me interpreting statements differently from you, let me know, m’kay?

No, you certainly didn’t. Is this fact, that you won’t actually explicitly say what is obvious from your tone, supposed to be a point in your favor?

Throw what? I don’t recall ever throwing anything at you.

You could have done so much less antagonistically.

Funny, I’m thinking the same about you.

49

Great discussion. If you can handle one more question from the doc-to-be (who hopes he can answer many of these questions before he has to ask them):

Let’s say a 15-year-old girl comes into my clinic for a sore throat, or a tennis physical. I do believe I should seize the opportunity to talk to her about birth control, at the very least.

–How hard should I push the subject? If she says she’s not having sex and doesn’t need to be on the pill, should I try to talk her into it “just in case”? (Or just in case she doesn’t want to tell me about it?) I strongly believe that I shouldn’t push my patients in any moral direction, but this case seems different.

–What about the parents? I’m not legally or ethically obligated to tell her parents, and I believe I’m ethically obligated not to tell them if she doesn’t want me to. If she wants me to keep it a secret, should I help her get around the parents? Or should I encourage her to be open with them about it?

–How would you feel, as a parent, if you found her pills in the bathroom with my name on the package? Would you feel that I am undermining your authority? (Or would someone else be justified in thinking so?)

–15 was a randomly-picked age. Pregnancy among 13- and 14-year-olds is not unheard of. How old is old enough to talk to them about it?

We ask questions like this all the time in my PPS class, which could be re-named Great Medical Debates. It’s good to get an outside perspective, though.

Dr. J

50

Thank you, Weirddave, for bringing a voice of reason into this discussion. :slight_smile:

DoctorJ, I am not sure how I would feel as a parent if this situation happened. I hope that I can fulfill that role in my child’s life so that you will not have to do that. Personally, I would not be upset that you talked to my child about sex and birth control. I just hope to do that job myself.

I am not sure of the legalities of all of that, but I can do some research at work if you want.

I would like to bring one thing up though. If you do talk to teens about sex and birth control, I think that you should talk to the boys as well as the girls. Some teens may feel more comfortable talking to you than their parents.

What matters most is how you see yourself.

51

DoctorJ, a fifteen-year-old’s medical status is the responsibility of her parents. I would be absolutely appalled to find that my minor child was on ANY prescription drug without my knowledge. If my child was on the pill, and began having excruciating migraines for example, I would know to take her off it or have her prescription changed, due to the risk of stroke. The pill is relatively safe but it is NOT risk-free.

Not to mention, pregancy isn’t the only thing to consider here. The pill won’t do a thing about syphilis, gonhorrea, genital warts (with their risk of cervical cancer later on) or, for God’s sake, AIDS.

I also have to disagree with the statement that “teens are going to have sex.” Some will but some won’t. I didn’t and neither did my friends. We weren’t screaming it from the housetops, though.

52

Yo Doc:

If I was a 15 uear old girl (if I shave, I can pass off as one according to Drainy), and I went to you for something like a sprained ankle, and you’re asking me if I’m sexually active, my first thought would be, “What does this have to do with my ankle?” and my next thought would be, “He’s creepy! Ew!”

It’s one thing to be concerned about your patients overall welfare, and sure, in the course of a routine check-up, it’s cwertainly a subject worth broaching, but with the sensitive times we live in, be very careful about things.

As for the OP, I believe that teen pregnancy has been going down steadily for the last several years. Not that it’s not something we don’t need to concern ourselves with, naturally… I just think it ties in with all of the other problems young people have.

Some of it is rebellion that transcends “healthy,” but a lot of it is just because there are shitty parents out there. Teen pregnancy is ultimately not unlike violence, drug addiction and other things befalling our nations youth. If we had better parenting, I think we would have less of all of the above.

Yer pal,
Satan

53

SoutherXYL:

GRrrr...that's exactly what I'm talking about, you want this 14 yr old to choose wisely and maturely, but you want to treat him/her as a child.

It's about respect and don't think your children don't see it as disrespect. And if they see you continually disrespect them imagine what they'd think of any action that might demonstrate their disrespect for all that you hold dear...
Grr....

Wisdom is the boobie prize,they give you when you’ve been --unwise!

54

Oh, baby, I am here to tell you that that “legal paper” makes an ENORMOUS difference. That’s “little piece of paper” is what keeps you and your husband (or wife) together when the chips are down and marriage isn’t “fun” anymore. You’ve heard about the “7 year itch”, I suppose? There is also a “1 year itch”, and a "2 year itch, and a “3 year itch,” and a "4 year itch…Nobody ever makes a long-term emotional commitment to another human being without having second thoughts, and third thoughts, and fourth thoughts, etc. That piece of paper is what holds you together as a unit through the bad times, when you’re bored with each other, and there’s no money in the checking account for “fun” stuff, just food and rent.

Now, maybe you’d rather bail when it gets boring, and that’s fine by me. Pack your duds and scoot for greener pastures, it’s a free country. But NOT if there’s a child involved. If you’re going to put a child through the trauma of a divorce, you’d better have a much better reason than just, “It’s not FUN anymore.”

That piece of paper is also what makes sure your child still has a daddy around when it’s not “fun” for him anymore, when he’s tired of babysitting while you’re at work, when he’s sick of never being able to be with his friends because he has to “do something” with you and the kid.

That piece of paper is what makes sure your child’s daddy fulfills his material (financial) obligations towards his baby, especially if in 5 or 10 or 15 years, he should decide he likes somebody else better. Since there’s no reason for him to stay with you, he marries HER, and has kids with HER. If you don’t got that piece of paper, your child hasn’t got squat. Good luck getting child support–the system basically sucks.

Don’t knock the “piece of paper”, sweetie. I’m here to tell you that it’s pulled me through 26 years of marriage so far, most of them good times, a few of them not so good, and it was the “piece of paper”, the legal commitment as well as the emotional commitment, that kept us together when it would have been a lot easier to just say “forget this” and split.

Knowing how much hassle you’ll have to go through just to get out of a marriage that there’s nothing wrong with except boredom is a powerful incentive to try to make it work. You ask, “Why bother to make something work if you’re tired of it anyway?”

Because you learn something, and it makes you a better, stronger, more mature person. Because people around you, like friends and employers, see that you can make a commitment and stick to it, and they think the better of you for it. Because part of being an adult is being able to make a promise and keep it, a promise considerably more important than, “Pick you up at the airport on Saturday, promise.”

End of lecture. I’m glad that your baby’s dad is involved in the day-to-day care. The foundation that he’s laying now, the relationship, is what will carry him through when the kid gets older and isn’t quite so cute, like a mouthy 12-year-old.

As to how the “piece of paper” changes your role as a parent, again, if you know you’re stuck with the relationship, (husband/wife, parent/child), there’s more incentive to make it work, to go out of your way to do the right thing, to not just shrug it off and let somebody else carry the burden.

And I sincerely hope you are using some kind of reliable birth control now. One baby at a time is enough. :slight_smile:

“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen

55

This discussion is getting more personal than I anticipated.

Dr.J, speaking as a parent, I would personally be EXTREMELY upset to find that my 15-year-old daughter had gone to you for a sprained ankle and had also been asked, “Are you sexually active? Do you need birth control?” Maybe that’s not a bad idea for disadvantaged inner city girls who have no other means of obtaining the information, but for the rest of us, I think it’s MYOB in a big way, Doc.

And like Satan, I would also have to wonder what your interest was. “Creepy,” I might think.

Although I have to admit, it might be different if you were a trusted family physician, say, the pediatrician who had seen her through croup, and stitches, and weird allergic reactions. Then you’d have the right, I think, to ask something like that. But not if you’re just working in a drop-in clinic. It’s not your job to educate the masses on the dangers of unplanned pregnancies. Just tape the ankle.

I don’t know where your practice is–maybe you’re doing the Mother Teresa thing in Slumlord Central, in which case I would say just the opposite: “Give those girls anything you’ve got, and bless you for trying to make a difference.”

“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen

56

Interesting responses. I can see both sides of the issue myself (I’m such a damn Libra)–that’s why I’m asking.

I suppose I am thinking as family/town doctor, since that’s what I’m going to do (for a while, anyway). Also, the area I’ll be practicing in, rural eastern KY, has a high incidence of teen pregnancy, although as Satan mentioned, I believe it is going down.

One doctor told me, “Most parents never really admit that their daughter is having sex until she announces that she’s pregnant, whether that’s at 15 or 30.” As such, if you talk to the parent about it, the response is likely to be, “Oh, she doesn’t need to be on the pill. She’s not going to be having sex anytime soon.” (This is the pervasive attitude in eastern Kentucky, the Land of Denial. I have very few friends who ever once talked about sex with their parents before they left home, not even “the talk”.) The daughter is not likely to pipe up and say, “No, Mom, I’m having all kinds of sex. Set me up, Doc.”

Similarly, she’s not going to get Mom to drive her to the doctor just to talk about birth control. The subject might more logically come up during a routine physical, but a lot of teenagers don’t get regular physicals except for sports. Ideally, a girl who wanted to talk about birth control would bring up the subject herself during an unrelated visit, but if I know anything about fifteen-year-old girls, they’re not likely to talk to this 30-year-old male doctor about their sex lives out of the blue.

So what I’m saying is that it’s going to be hard for a 15-year-old sexually active girl to get on birth control pills without cooperative parents. Maybe a better question is, should she be able to get them without parental consent? I think so, just because of this denial factor that I mentioned above.

The more I think about it, though, I’m not sure of the legal situation. It’s always muddy when you’re talking about an adolescent, and a lot of the discretion is left up to the doctor. I’ll e-mail one of the pediatrics profs and get the Straight Dope.

I think what I would try to do is bring up the subject as part of my routine psychosocial history (easing into it as much as possible), and follow from there. If the girl tells me, “No, I’m not sexually active,”, or “I don’t want the pill,” I wouldn’t push the issue. If she did want them, though, I’d write her the prescription. I would encourage her to talk to her parents about it, but if she didn’t think that would work, I would probably help her go about getting the pills. (You can usually get them for free at the health department around here.)

As a parent, I would hope that I could be open with my kid about this, and the situation wouldn’t come up. On the other hand, if I did find out she was taking them behind my back, I would probably be relieved that she had at least that much sense. Then again, I’m not a parent.

Dr. J

PS: I keep referring to a girl because that was my hypothetical, and it’s a tougher situation. I wouldn’t have any problem sending the guys out with the facts and a big ol’ sack of prophylactics, if he wants them.

“Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera

57

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Notthemama:
**
That piece of paper is also what makes sure your child still has a daddy around when it’s not “fun” for him anymore, when he’s tired of babysitting while you’re at work, when he’s sick of never being able to be with his friends because he has to “do something” with you and the kid.

That piece of paper is what makes sure your child’s daddy fulfills his material (financial) obligations towards his baby, especially if in 5 or 10 or 15 years, he should decide he likes somebody else better. Since there’s no reason for him to stay with you, he marries HER, and has kids with HER. If you don’t got that piece of paper, your child hasn’t got squat. Good luck getting child support–the system basically sucks.

There is also another " piece of paper"
for single mothers to make sure the father sticks around.
It’s a paper that the mother and father signs to establish paternity.
It’s true that the father does not have to sign the paper but the mother can get a court order very easily to get blood work done. Even if the father is pretty sure that the baby is his but still wants a DNA test he can get one.

I doubt that this is what you were trying to say but nobody should marry someone just to make sure that they will be obligated to support their child.

But my point is that marriage is not the only way to make sure the father supports his child.
After the unmarried mother and father establish paternity they can go into the issue of child support.

58
  1. Yes
  2. The ones who had the sexual intercourse.
  3. No
  4. Too vague.
  5. And, oh, those were my opinions.

Judy

Notthemama: :smiley: excellent post, BTW

“Muck should replace ‘suck’. For ‘muck’ is yucky, while ‘suck’ feels very lucky. So, don’t stay stuck on suck, switch to MUCK, today.”

59

As for alternate perspectives, you may be interested to know that after age 14, a child in Quebec is competent to personally refuse or accept medical or psychiatric procedures.

60

That’s fine. This isn’t Quebec.

And a 14-year-old IS a child, for God’s sake. Who is legally and financially responsible for a 14-year-old? Her parents are!

I also think, elbows or whoever you are, that you are making a big assumption about why I wouldn’t want my daughter on the pill. I am very serious about the side effects of this or any other medication and if I am to take care of her I NEED TO KNOW what is going into her body. I myself had to change my dosage because of severe headaches that my doctor told me were a prelude to stroke. Lots of teens are put on the pill for severe cramps and/or unpredictable cycles, and given my history I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if my daughter wound up on it. I’d expect a lot more support and monitoring from her doctor, than to have a stranger shove a piece of paper at her. There’s a reason why it’s prescription only.

DrJ, you do know that these clueless teens you are talking about are very capable of being pregnant without knowing it, and that it’s not considered a good idea to be on the pill while pregnant. Are you going to perform a pregnancy test? Commit to monitoring their blood pressure? Ask them if they smoke (a contraindication for being on the pill more than a few years)? Ask them if they have a history of liver or kidney disease, and trust them to know the specifics? Lecture them about the need to use condoms anyway (as if they would now that you’ve got them on the pill) so they won’t get VD?

And if your patient is the 1-in-howevermany 10 or 100thousand that does have a stroke from the pill that her parents didn’t even know she was taking, would you be responsible for her medical care? Take time off from work to nurse her? Or say, “sorry, sweetie”, and move on?

As far as parents not talking to their kids about sex, I suggest you be a little more open-minded about the people you are dealing with, and not automatically assume that they are all clueless or ducking their responsibility. It sounds a bit patronizing, actually.