Telemarketers deserve death...

The BBQ Pit
121

I’m afriad I’m getting sucked into an argument where I’ll be forced to take the position “telemarketing isn’t really so bad, it’s a perfectly respectable job” when that’s not what I actually believe. The telemarketing industry is despicable, and it’s not a good job. I’d be as happy to see the end of the industry as anyone else.

My only point here is that the person calling you up and interrupting your dinner is a person. Just a regular person. Not an evil person, not worthless subhuman trash, but an ordinary person who is probably pretty nice really but for whatever reason wound up in an intensely obnoxious job where they get paid to bother you. You don’t know what their situation is, and you are in no position to declare yourself their moral superior because your job is better (or at least less irritating) than theirs.

I can understand being angry at telemarketers and snapping at them. Were I in the position of some of you who get a huge number of calls, I don’t think I’d have much patience with them myself. But it’s one thing to get angry, it’s another thing to pretend that in doing so you’re participating in some sort of righteous crusade. The telemarketing industry will not collapse because people are rude to telemarketers. You’re dreaming if you think it will. Shouting at some poor working stiff over the phone may make you feel better temporarily, but it is not actually solving the problem and it is certainly nothing to be proud of.

122

I’m sorry Lamia, I’m really a nice person but I needed money and somebody paid me to hit you upside the head with a dead rat and then dump a truckload of catshit on you. Please treat me with grace and dignity and politely tell me to leave.

123

Maybe I’m just talking out of my ass, here, but I’m seeing a bit of a disconnect between, “You can’t blame people for taking the only job available to them,” and 'We ought to ban telemarketing." If we ban telemarketing, these people will have no job whatsoever. Which, personally, I’m fine with. But if you’re arguing against being rude to telemarketers on the grounds that we should be more compassionate to them, aren’t you be even more dispassionate by trying to put them out of work? I think it’s a least marginably more admirable to say “Fuck you, I hope you starve” to their faces, (so to speak) instead of pretending to be polite while supporting efforts to do just that to them.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, it seems neither of us much care if we hurt telemarketers financially (by outlawing their line of work), but for some reason you don’t want to hurt their feelings, either, when that seems a much more minor offence than putting them out of work completly. That seems very odd, to me.

124

If the telemarketing industry collapsed, I’m sure the owners would come up with some other business to invest their ill-gotten gains in. There’s certainly be a need to expand other forms of marketing, like junk snail-mail and television advertising. The economy carries on.

125

Subhuman trash is as subhuman trash does.

Disagree. Telemarketing has essentially no redeeming values. Very few legal jobs out there can make that claim.

True, but it has been pointed out in this thread that many telemarketers quit over the abuse they receive from their intended victims. So it is likely that because of that abuse, telemarketing organizations must pay their callers more money, making it more expensive to run such a business. If a business is more expensive to run, marginal operations will be driven out. The net result? Less telemarketing calls.

Of course, I have no numbers to back up the above analysis, but it’s basic economics.

So I applaud anyone who screams abuse at telemarketers; makes them cry; and otherwise wastes their time.

One other thing: The above applies only to the subhuman trash that calls peoples’ residences. If somebody calls me in my office on my business line, I’ll be civil. Heck, sometimes I’ll even listen to their pitch.

126

I applaud the rest of your post, but “subhuman trash” is a distinction that should be reserved for the Hitlers, Pol Pots, and Kim Jong Ils of the world. I prefer to think of telemarketers as “horribly misguided invasive phone spammers”. They are not incorrigible; in fact, I have personally known two telemarketers who have seen the errors of their ways.

They can be Saved!

(yes that’s right… I’m a Fundamentalist Anti-Telemarketer… My Bible is Cervaise’s Holy Pit Rant, Hallowed Be His Name).

127

Well, some people must appreciate the opportunity to buy things over the phone or the telemarketing industry would be operating at a huge loss already. There must be a lot of people who buy from them; the businesses are getting the money to pay for all those annoying calls somehow. It’s not like spam e-mail, which has such low costs that spammers can easily afford to step up volume in response to decreased sales. As incredible as it may seem, telemarketers are providing a service that someone wants. The problem for everyone involved is that they aren’t calling only those people.

I almost said that I can’t imagine who these people might be, but I think I know who some are. The most depressing thing about my brief stint doing medical surveys by phone was that some people actually thanked me for calling them. I don’t mean a polite “thank you” either, but sincere gratitude for the opportunity to spend 15 minutes talking to another human being, even a stranger, even on a topic as dull as their opinions about the quality of their ophthalmological care. There are people so lonely and isolated that they enjoy unsolicited phone calls. I was once nearly reduced to tears by a sweet old lady who told me at the end of the survey that she really enjoyed our conversation. If I’d been selling something, I’m sure she would have bought it. Since that time, I’ve sometimes felt that telemarketing is an ill that American society brought upon itself through neglect of the elderly and other marginalized groups.

It just occured to me that I always felt far, far worse when people were grateful that I called them than when they were rude to me. (Which only seemed to happen when they thought I was a telemarketer – people were usually pretty polite about medical surveys even if they didn’t feel like participating in one.) I felt guilty about interrupting people’s dinners, but I felt less guilty about doing this to a rude person than a polite one. Unless people who work as telemarketers really are soulless, subhuman trash (which I must continue to doubt), “otherwise wasting their time” by acting really nice and appreciative while still refusing to buy might drive more from the business than shouting at them.

But I don’t think “killing them with kindness” is truly the answer either. Sweatshops and coal mines never seem to have had much trouble finding cheap labor, so I don’t think telemarketing businesses will have much even if the work makes people feel really bad. There may be a higher turnover rate, but it’s unskilled work so these sensitive employees are easy to replace. Telemarketing will be with us either until people stop buying or until it’s regulated out of existence.

128

Actually the “National Do Not Call List” seems to be working just fine. Our phone rarely rings anymore, with the exception of recordings from politicians and political parties. Was real nice of our elected officials to give themselves an exception. Just gives me another reason NOT to vote for someone every time they call.

129

I suspect that most of the folks who buy from telemarketers are people who have a hard time saying “no.” Telemarketers are just taking advantage of their weaknesses IMHO. So even in those cases, there’s really no benefit. Just MHO of course.

I doubt it, and the proof is in the telemarketing industry’s opposition to “do not call” lists. Because most of their victims err customers would say “no” if they could do it conveniently and without confronting anybody.

That may be so, but it doesn’t change the fact that (1) abusing telemarketers is completely justifiable; and (2) in the aggregate, it probably does have an effect.

And I agree that it won’t put an end to telemarketing. But it almost surely does put a dent in the problem.

130

Well, what it comes down to for me is that I do not accept that either of these things are facts. Quite the contrary. If they’re the basis for your argument then we’re not going to reach a point of stasis here.

131

Suit yourself. Point # 1 is a matter of opinion. Point #2 is simple economics.

And by the way, can I take it you’re abandoning your argument that "telemarketers are providing a service that someone wants. "

132

I am sure you can find some people out there that appreciate telemarketers. And as Lamia said, lonely people are sometimes grateful for the interaction.

But then again, the existence of masochists does not provide me with justification to go around poking people with a hot stick…

133

#2 is only true if telemarketing agencies are forced to increase wages because people start being even more rude to their employees. This has not been shown to be the case, it’s merely an assumption some people have made. I personally consider it unlikely, especially since technological advances have already made it possible for telemarketing firms to do more with less people.

Only to the extent that I am abandoning the subject altogether. I don’t have any special interest in defending telemarketers and I certainly don’t intend to support telemarketing, I just believe in behaving decently and reasonably towards my fellow human beings. But someone obviously does want the service, or they couldn’t make any money. Even if NONE of the consumers wanted it (which would mean we’ve got an economically significant group of credit-card holding adults whose consent is worthless) the manufacturers do. Of course, the reason they want to hire telemarketing firms is because the service provided works often enough to make it profitable…and that is, again, because enough people agree to buy their products when marketed in this way.

134

It’s more than an assumption – it’s a logical conclusion based on economic theory. Anyway, it seems to me that you should explain which steps in the chain you disagree with and why.

Rather than simply repeating your previous point, perhaps you could try to address the argument I made:

If telemarketing companies revenues come from the fact that some people “want the service,” then why do telemarketing companies oppose “do not call” lists so aggressively?

If what you were saying were true, telemarketing firms would welcome the opportunity to save themselves the trouble of calling folks who do not want to be called. Instead, the telemarketing industry has aggressively attacked “do not call” laws in the Courts. Why? Why? Why?

135

So, telemarketers survive by preying on the lonely, the emotionally vulnerable, and the elderly. Remind me again why these people deserve even a modicum of respect?

136

Because they’re people.

137

And that’s special how, exactly?

138

Ugh. I’m a Telemarketer right now, been working for about two months as it. Wanted to get a job in Customer Support but this was what was available at the time so I ended up doing it. Some things:

I hate this job. I’m sitting at my computer now with a big cold knot in my stomach because I have to go to work tomorrow (today actually, since it is past midnight). I feel guilty about calling about 100 people every day and disturbing them. I’m a tad sensitive so verbal abuse actually gets to me for some reason, so that adds a bit to the angst too.

I currently sell “health products”, like fish oil and simmilar products, hoping to get transferred to the department that sells electricity. I only have a cell phone so I never get called by telemarketers myself, but here is how I work:

I call up and introduce myself and the company I work for. Then I ask if they have heard of our products and/or tried them. If they at this point say they’re not interested I do tend to ask again if they know what the products are and are supposed to be good for, hoping to get a conversation going. If not, I excuse myself and hang up.

My talent here in life is pretty much that I’m good at talking and arguing. It doesn’t shine through here because English is my second language, but I am quite persuasive in Swedish. I am among the top 10 at the company (200+ people) at selling, even though I am new, but I am a bit different in my “style” since I am really more into customer support and helping people. I don’t try to push these products on people, I try to convince them to try it, by explaining how it works, I try to convince people who already use it to take our subscription (they will usually save money). I also always inform people about the catch of “testing”, that a second package will show up within a week or two unless they cancel the subscription.

I do feel like shit for having this job. I can’t say I feel any better after reading this thread, but I have to keep the job at least for a while because I have debts to pay off and right now I don’t have any alternatives (I am looking for other jobs). If I end up calling someone who seems agitated or just extremely negative to telemarketers, I always inform them of the national “Do not call” register and give them their number so they can call up. I wish everyone who didn’t want me to call them was registered.

Every day I also end up talking to one or more people that are just lonely. Elderly people mostly. I always spend a couple of minutes chatting with them about day-to-day things, of course I check if they are interested in the product but if they really aren’t (or are on medication) I don’t try to sell them anything, just talk for a couple of minutes and wish them a good day.

I have the least “customer contacts” of anyone working here but I am still one of the top sellers, especially in getting people to sign up for longer periods and such. I do try to make sure that they get what they want and many times have I backed off from a sale when I have realised that the person I am talking to is confused or vulnerable. I’ve probably sold to some of them too though, because when you get the tempo up and are working, you may not notice it until when you stop and think about what was said after the call is done, but those times I have gone back and cancelled the subscription if I am sure.

Anyway, I fully realise that people hate me and my colleges. I however try to minimise the inconvenience as much as I can by being nice and by backing off reasonably early (if you just hang up on the first “I’m not interested” you’re not going to sell anything). If you hate telemarketers, just sign up on the “Don’t call” register. Yes it is an inconvenience and yes you shouldn’t have to, but it’s less inconvenient then being called up if you’re bothered about it.

Well, I don’t feel a single bit better after writing this, so much for that. I would probably have been rude if a telemarketer had called me a few months ago, now I realise what a thankless and shitty job it is, filled with anxiety and pressure, so I won’t add to it if I get called. I’ll just quickly and firmly explain that I am not interested (unless I am of course, there are some good deals) and hang up. I hope other people will act like that instead of being abusive, or even better, sign up for a Don’t call register*.

Oh, and if anyone have a job to offer, I’ll take it. I don’t care what it is or where I have to move. This job is killing my sould bit by bit.

*The swedish register is called Nix! The number is 020-277000 and their homepage is http://www.nix.nu

139

No more special than other kinds of people. I’m not suggesting that telemarketers be given a ticker-tape parade. Just that they are human beings with the same basic dignity as other human beings. They are not subhuman trash worthy of abuse or death. They are not disgusting creatures who it is not merely tempting, but righteous, to treat as poorly as you possibly can.

I don’t enjoy receiving calls from people who want me to buy aluminum siding that I neither want nor need. However, I’d much sooner cast my lot with them than with those who are capable of believing that there exist other human beings who aren’t worthy of “even a modicum of respect.” Telemarketers deserve far more respect than people who think that it’s ever praiseworthy to be cruel to others.

140

Considering that “treating them as poorly as I possibly can” is limited entirely to calling them mean things on the phone (and only when they call me), I think you’re really over-reacting here. Hypebole in the thread title aside, no one has said telemarkters deserve anything more than a few obsenities. No one is honestly calling for their death, and I’ve got much higher standards for what I’m willing to consider “abuse” than can be achieved via telephone.

There’s also the issue of wether respect and dignity are inherent or earned. I tend to believe they must be earned, and telemarketers have done nothing to earn them from me. Indeed, they have gone out of their way to do things that lose my respect for them.

Really? You don’t think there is any subset of humanity that is not deserving of respect? Not one? Violent racists? Child rapists? Terrorists? Serial killers? Surely, there are some actions that a human being can commit that would cause you to lose all respect for them?

While I’m at it, have you never flamed anyone in the Pit? Ever? Because that’s all that’s happening to telemarketers. If a telemarketer phones me and I call him an asshole, am I worse than someone who, say, opens a thread with a title that clearly indicates they are saying something offensive, and calls the OP an asshole? After all, the later requires actively seeking out a source of irritation, whereas with the former, I’m reacting to someone who has gone out of their way to invade my privacy. How is one worse than the other? Or, if one isn’t worse than the other, how come you’re not railing against every other post in this forum?

Really, all anyone here is advocating is rudeness repaid with rudeness in equal measure. If I were to call you a “cunt” to your face, would you honestly turn the other cheek and let my insult pass without comment, or would you respond in kind? If you wouldn’t, then congratulations; you’re a better person than I am. However, I would submit that you’re also a better person than 90% of the human race. Admirable indeed, but perhaps an unrealistic standard to expect everyone else to meet?