Tell me about adopting an older child, or even just adoption in general

(For context, I am in Alberta.)

A nine year old girl has thrown a wrench in to our life, but it’s a good thing. :slight_smile:

tl;dr - We are considering adopting a nine year old foster child that has been a part of our extended family for a number of years (she is not related to us, however). The province has filed for custody of her, but her mom is contesting it. Court date is in April.

I’ve mentioned this before, but my husband and I have fertility problems and are in the process of preping for our first IVF (side story - I am also donating eggs to my sister). We both work full time and are established in our careers.

So let me tell you about Sable. Sable came in to my husband’s side of the family about five years ago. His cousin, Amy, used to work at a center for kids in the foster system. Sable was one of those kids. She has two brothers and a sister, and was living with her mom. Mom is not working and also has issues with alcohol and drugs, as well as a few mental problems. Sable spent a lot of her first two or three years in a crib by herself, and had early development problems (talking, being around people, etc.). The province stepped in and Sable started going to this learning center, though custody was not taken away from mom.

Sable took to Amy and Amy started taking her on the weekends, with the mom’s permission. This went on for years and Sable has become a part time member of our family. She had to work through some emotional issues, but was slowly making progress.

Almost a year ago, the province finally took Sable and put her in to the foster system. Amy and her new husband filed for kinship custody and Sable moved in with them full time. Shortly after they took Sable in, Amy got pregnant with their first child. While Sable was doing really well in school (she is no longer in ‘special’ classes and is in regular class, consistently getting A’s in most of her schoolwork) and her behavior problems have gotten much better with therapy, her and Amy are like oil and water. They do not get along and are having a few issues.

About six months ago, Amy and her husband decided that they needed to focus on the new baby, so arranged for Sable to be moved in to another foster home just before the baby was born. While my husband and I don’t agree with this (poor kid is yet again being abandoned), it’s their decision. Sable moved to another foster home at the beginning of December, and the baby was born on December 31.

Also in the last few months, Amy and her husband have decided that if Sable does come up for adoption, they will not be adopting her. That’s where my husband and I come in. WE want to adopt her. I’ve had her for a day at a time over the last year, she stayed with us for a few days over Christmas, and then I had her again this past weekend. She’s a great kid, and has a ton of potential that will probably not be used if she ends up in the foster system. I know her chances of being adopted at nine years old are slim, and she’ll probably end up in foster homes until she’s an adult. Not a good life.

The province has filed for custody, but the mom has contested. Amy thinks the mom is contesting because it’s the ‘right’ thing to do, as she is not showing up for her visitation and Sable hasn’t seen her for months because of it (though they do talk on the phone occasionally). Either way, the court date is in April.

Here are my questions:

How hard is it going to be to make this kind of transition (for both her and us)?
If mom is contesting this, what are the chances the province will actually get custody of her?
What is/how hard is the process for adopting a foster child, if anyone has ever gone through it?
Do we need a lawyer ourselves, or is it handled through the province?

I don’t know anything about the legal issues, and I’ve never adopted a child myself, but can comment based on my brother/SIL’s experiences.

They adopted a little girl who was about 3 when she came to them. This girl was the child of a single mother who had significant substance abuse issues. She and a sister had been taken away due to neglect; the sister also had pretty significant developmental issues.

While the state could remove the girls from their mother, they could not easily terminate parental rights. As such, my brother/SIL were nominally just her foster parents for a number of years.

The birth mother continued to demonstrate her unsuitability by getting pregnant again - that baby was taken away pretty much at birth, as I recall. However, the mother refused to give up rights to the older daughters.

Court hearings to try to terminate the mother’s rights went nowhere - I don’t recall all the details (not having been involved firsthand, obviously) but there were things like the social services agency not being prepared, the government agencies not being prepared, postponements etc. Ultimately what did it was the little girl’s mother visiting and seeing how well her daughter was doing in a stable home, and she was finally persuaded that she could not give the girl (who at this point barely remembered her) a good life.

I do know there were some issues with the agency concealing some known issues with my niece (some mild developmental delays) - we think because they were eager to make her more “attractive” to potential adoptive parents. They’ve since decided that she probably has some degree of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome - no surprise given the mother’s history.

In your case, your family has been involved with Sable for quite some time so there should be fewer surprises at least.

How heartbreaking that Amy pursued her, then found she didn’t get along with her (and shipped her off once the new baby was due). Poor kid :(. However that does raise the issue of what you’ll do if you succeed in getting pregnant. While you would, I’m sure, never consider “getting rid of” Sable in that situation, Sable will certainly expect you to do so and will be terrified, and may well act out as a result.

I think if you do proceed with this, it could be a truly wonderful thing for everyone. Best of luck!!!

Thank you!

Yes, because Sable has been around the family for so many years, we are aware of the issues she does have and issues that may appear in the future. We’ve discussed this and are hopeful that through structure, love and therapy, Sable can grow up to be a productive member of society (and she’s SO DAMN SMART - seriously, her knowledge about dinosaurs and Amelia Earhart astound me).

We’ve also discussed the pregnancy thing. We do not agree with what Amy and her husband are doing and have agreed that we would never, ever do this. We feel like this just feeds in to her sense of abandonment and lack of a stable family to call her own. There is also the issue that she has become close to Amy and her husband regardless, and has even called Amy ‘mom’ a few times (though Amy asked her not to call her that). How will she feel if she’s shifted in to our home and we’re mom and dad, and Amy is now a cousin? But at the same time, that bond with the people she knows will remain.

Sable asked me this weekend why Derek and I didn’t have kids, and if we were going to have any. I told her we weren’t able to have kids on our own and that doctors need to help us, but yes, we would like to have kids one day. Then I mentioned that we were also thinking of adopting (though I didn’t say who). She has no idea that we are discussing this, though I think that once we talk to the family about it and make our decision to go forward, she needs to be involved. She needs to know what’s going on too (nine is old enough for that, right?).

Anyhow, she’s a great kid and I just want the best for her. I’m also scared of having my hopes dashed and my heart broken. Also, omg, a nine year old! How do I do this?! :eek:

She’s intrested in Amelia Earhart??? I must talk to this kid.
As long as it’s understood by all, ( and that includes Sable) that this is a forever thing, and you’ll not be "giving her back " and provided that Bio Mom doesn’t get custody, (which given circumstances I doubt,) I think she’ll be a great blessing in your lives.
How do you do it? How does any parent raise a child? They do the absolute best they can, every single day, they make mistakes, and learn from them, they love the kid more than they thought it was possible for them to love, and then some. They live in constant amazement of the small human that shares their lives.

Praying that you make the best decision for all involved and that the courts will, too. *HUG.

Haha, yes, she’s nuts about Amelia Earhart. I learned aaallllll about her this weekend. She even knew the name of her navigator (“who was one of the best navigators in the world”), the island she’s assumed to have crash landed on, and how old she was when she started flying. When she’s on my iPad, she just looks up videos about her to learn more (that or dinosaurs - her favorite is the deinonychus. “Did you know the deinonychus has a big retractible claw on their feet?”)

She also loves wolves and during one of our walks she was teaching me how to howl properly (apparently I sound like a coyote, not a wolf). She cracks me up.

Oooh, I don’t have anything to add about the adoption issue, but if the kid likes dinosaurs, I’m a big fan of the blogs Not Exactly Rocket Science (which covers other types of animals, too, and is really good at explaining new science to a non-specialist audience) and Tetrapod Zoology (more technical, but she might like it anyway; covers dinosaurs and other four-legged animals).

Kudos, but no need to rush things imo, esp iif you’vve never fostered kids before…has Amy completely dropped out of her life?

What will you do if you do become pregnant and Sable reacts by testing your bond?

Get your feet wet first be her “big sister” take classes on fostering or whatever, let time sort it out as you mentor her and remain a stable adult in her life.

Any updates on what happened with Sable?

Thanks for asking! If you haven’t seen my IVF thread, we were not successful and are waiting until the fall to take any additional steps.

We found out just before we went on vacation at the beginning of April that mom has successfully postponed the custody hearing until August. Sable remains at the other foster home, but with Amy and Matt on the weekends. Sable will now not be moving back in with Amy and Matt until July. She seems to be doing ok at the other foster home, but has had some concerning psychological issues lately, such as pulling out her eyelashes (which she seems to have stopped now) and not telling anyone when she gets hurt, nor crying. For instance, about six weeks ago, she was picked up from her school and taken to the after school day home by her regular driver (they get transported in a van, I think). Her pointer finger got slammed in the door bad enough that her nail turned back and fell off. She didn’t tell anyone that this happened - no one realized it until her nail turned black the next day and someone asked. When asked how/why she didn’t cry, she said she doesn’t like crying and just held it in. Strange.

Amy is the one involved in discussions with the social worker, so I get my information through her. When she told me of the change in court date, I asked how likely it was that mom would get her back, and Amy said it was almost certain Sable will go to her mom, as long as mom puts in the work this summer (therapy, etc.) to be able to get her back. But, if mom screws up, this is her last chance and Sable will be removed for good. If that happens, we will still move forward with adopting her.

We had her this weekend and she’s doing well. She has a thing about mummies right now (the Egyption, cloth wrapped kind) and is having nightmares, but didn’t have one the night she spent at our house. She is a really active kid and we spent a lot of time outside on bikes and walking the dog. She helped us volunteer at a bike race yesterday morning and seems interested in maybe getting a better bike and racing soon. She is very interested in healthy eating and healthy living and likes doing outdoorsy stuff with us. She’s very excited to go camping with us this summer (she’s never been)!

Because of the probability that mom will get Sable back, Derek and I have started working on making sure Sable knows that if anything happens, she can call either one of us. She’ll have our phone numbers and we want her to understand that if she’s to scared to go to her mom, teachers, or Amy and Matt, she can come to us. We’d like to stay in her life, and hope her mom will still let us take her every second weekend.

Sable knows that Derek and I have fertility issues and want a child (Amy told her). She knows we did IVF and it didn’t work, but doesn’t really understand the process. She also knows we are looking at adoption. She brought this up over the weekend and asked if we wanted a girl or boy. I said it didn’t matter to us and she said ‘Well, as long as you like each other like we do, it shouldn’t matter, right?’ I don’t know if she was fishing or not, but I hope she has no idea that Derek and I are on board with adopting her should this stuff with her mom fall through. She shouldn’t know that at her age, it’ll be too hard for her to deal with, imo.

I think that’s about it! So, I guess it’s still a waiting game.

I think you’re awesome. All the way through.

( Remember you don’t really need to ‘own’ Sable, and Sable may not need to be ‘owned’. Kids sometimes just run off, and Mom don’t care. Sometimes they know where to go, (I’d bet Sable does!), and sometimes the best thing is to not pursue the legal channels and issues and cause conflict. Maybe just let her come, if that’s the best that can happen. This is just my opinion and something I think you should be open to, please don’t be offended!)

Thanks, and no offense taken. So many things are up in the air right now all we’re doing is focusing on providing her with a stable environment that helps her get her energy out. We both like just spending time with her.

If by that you mean if Sable shows up out of the blue that they shouldn’t call her current guardian and/or the cops, that’s a horrible idea. They could be investigated for kidnapping and, even if nothing comes of that, no family court is going to look kindly on squirreling away a runaway. It would definitely prejudice their ability to one day adopt Sable if it comes to that.

EmAnJ, it sounds like you should be asking these questions of counsel. Just going to a lawyer to talk this stuff through doesn’t mean you’re going to war, and it doesn’t mean that you’ve decided what you want to do. However, he can tell you better than anyone here what your options are, and what steps you should be taking today to set yourself up for August. He might also be able to get you more direct information about what’s going on instead of having to have everything filtered through your cousin, who (not to cast aspersions on her motives) is already emotionally invested, and so is possibly not the most objective reporter.

–Cliffy

It may be harder for the government to take custody if there’s not a plan for her future. I’m sure her caseworker knows that her current and past placements are not planning to adopt her. If you haven’t expressed your interest to the caseworker, you should. They can give you some basic advice on how to proceed.

That’s a good point, and one that my husband and I have discussed. We had decided that we’d stay out of it so as not to influence the decision. Sable should go to her mom, if mom is able to properly care for her.

That said, it might be worth just putting it out there with her case worker. We’ll have to discuss this a bit more. Thanks!

It’s not your job to figure out what the state should do – they have degrees in this stuff. You should pursue what you guys think is best for you and for Sable (whatever that is). If the state disagrees, they’ll have no compunction about letting you know.

–Cliffy

You are correct, and it’s something we’ll consider. (By the way, I’m in Canada - Alberta to be exact. It works similarly though.)