I saw Derek Trucks last night, and it was phenomenal. They closed the show with a nice, long, wonderful jam on “My Favorite Things,” and the last time I saw them they did “Afro Blue.” So, obviously DT is listening to a lot of Coltrane – and if it’s good enough for DT, it’s good enough for me.
Dunno much about Coltrane, though – grabbed my copy of My Favorite Things to listen to on my way to work this morning (they didn’t need to add the two alternate takes to the CD reissue – but I digress), and of course I’ve got A Love Supreme – where do I go from there?
Depends, do you like that stuff or would you like to hear something with a different sound? I really love his early stuff with Miles and Monk. The modal stuff that he did later (Love Supreme and Favorite things) does not appeal to me as much (although I have spent a lot of time listening to it all). Giant Steps is a great record and a great song, I would check that out as well.
I’ve actually been listening to a fair amount of Miles Davis recently – Witch’s Brew and the Jack Johnson album – because of my John McLaughlin thing.
I’m not super knowlegable about jazz – obviously – what does “modal” mean in this context?
ETA: Whatever modal is, I may agree with you that it’s not my favorite. One of the reasons I’ve never gotten too far into Coltrane is that neither of these albums, which I’ve always understood to be quintessential, really knock my socks off.
I was going to link wiki but it’s a bit technical, but the idea is that there is an emphasis on melodic changes over harmonic (chord) changes. The end result is a smoother less frenetic sound as in Favorite Things or Kind of Blue.
I think you’d really like hearing Mile’s early stuff after hearing *Bitches Brew * and Jack Johnson (one of my favorites). I’ve always thought those albums were the gateway records to earlier jazz.
How do you feel about Mingus? I recommend “Blues & Roots” and “Ah Oo” (or something like that, I’m in a hurry, no time to find my copy and see how it’s really spelled).
I think Miles Davis sounds kind of '60s but Mingus for some reason sounds like it could have been done yesterday–but it’s '60s too.
Let’s not get lost here people – I want to listen to some Coltrane so the next time I go see Derek Trucks I’ll get what he’s doing in the context of what he clearly has been listening to.
IMO, Blue Train is the greatest jazz album that has ever been made. Just insanely creative, smoky, heroin jazz from a world-class master. Also incredibly highly recommended is Giant Steps.
I think frenetic may have been a poor choice of words. I think modal jazz is boring. I like how the changing chords and modulations shape the melodies and the solos.
I tend to do that.
I would check out Birth of the Cool, *'Round Midnight * or *Milestones *, they are all pretty representative of that era.
I also agree with the *Blue Train * recommendation.
I’m not sure that “emphasis on melodic changes” communicates the right idea. “Modal,” in the context of jazz, refers to staying in one harmonic setting for an extended time instead of negotiating the frequent chord changes common to bebop and standards. A classic example of modal Coltrane is “Impressions,” which consists of 16 bars of Dm7, 8 bars of Ebm7, and back to Dm7 for the last 8 bars. Lather, rinse, repeat. (Miles Davis’s “So What,” which Trane played on, is the same pattern.) That’s a big block of time in Dm7, and the improviser is challenged to maintain an exciting melodic flow without the regular chord changes to follow.
twickster, you ought to check out Coltrane’s Live at Birdland, which contains his classic version of “Afro Blue,” Olé Coltrane, which features Trane and Eric Dolphy doing some wonderful extended blowing, and Impressions, with the above-mentioned title track and the great drone-based modal piece “India.”
While I was greatly impressed with Coltrane on Kind of Blue and understand the influence he has had on rock musicians like the Allman Brothers, I fell out of admiration of him when he got into his avant garde phase. There is, however, an album he did with vocalist Johnny Hartman that shows his lyrical side and one called Ballads that showed he still had awareness of melodic improvisation. I believe songs/tunes like Naima and Giant Steps are in the pantheon of jazz standards. Aside from that, I can’t really help guide you to good examples of how he may have influenced Derek Trucks.
Many thanks, all. Sounds like Giant Steps should be the next one to check out, or maybe Live at Birdland.
And Zeldar – I wasn’t looking for someone to explain the Trane/Trucks connection, just trying to explain why it was Coltrane specifically I was interested in here, not jazz of that era in general.
If you haven’t already, check out the Wikipedia article on Coltrane as well as the one on Derek Trucks for any more insight into the connections. My memory of the Coltrane/Davis connection with the original Allman Brothers (and by extension the offshoots since then) had most to do with the Kind of Blue influence.
Coltrane’s music went through several phases (pretty well covered in the linked article) so it would be a stretch to say you could just pick any Coltrane album at random and have a good feel for his contributions to music. Even more in that vein can be said about Miles. Few players have been as instrumental in as many movements as these guys.
As I said in my earlier post, my own enjoyment of Coltrane is limited to the Kind of Blue period, but in the extensive biography on him that I read not too long ago I can easily see that his stamp on jazz is much greater than my own appreciation range. So depending on your own tastes you may find the entire subject of Coltrane a bit puzzling or confusing. But if he touches you deeply with what’s beneath the sound, perhaps his entire catalog would be worth examining. I’d suggest library copies of selected albums as a start.
You’re quite welcome. If there’s more in the tenor sax that excites you, worth hearing for contrast with Coltrane are Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, Wayne Shorter and Branford Marsalis (among dozens of other greats). I can’t think of anybody on soprano sax who comes close. And almost as many musicians since the 60’s, regardless of instrument, list Coltrane as often as Charlie Parker as being a strong influence on their approach to jazz. There’s no doubt he’s a giant.
The Allman Brothers were definitely listening to Kind of Blue in the early days, Zeldar - they demoed My Favorite Things in 1971, and had Duane Allman lived I think they would have been playing it live by the end of that year - but Coltrane and Miles have a much larger influence on Derek’s playing than on the ABB’s. Kind of Blue is one of those jazz albums that people who don’t know much about jazz (yo!) can listen to. Derek has been known to quote more obscure Coltrane stuff, like Alabama and parts of A Love Supreme, in his solos.
The dTb has gigged Coltrane’s Naima and Mr. PC and the ones mentioned in the OP, and others, I’m sure, over the years. Naima and Mr. PC are both from Giant Steps, so while I’m no Trane expert, that’s probably the best place to go right now.
