I was about to chime in with this last night, then decided not to, but now I’m going to… IVF is called “invasive” and I understand that egg harvesting isn’t a picnic in the park… but neither is pregnancy. From a physical standpoint, I think that willingness to carry a child probably means you’re up for whatever IVF is going to throw you, too.
Exactly, thank you. And if you change your mind as you go, and decide to try 13 months or 15 months instead of 12, that’s fine. But you’ve had some sort of discussion up front that lets you, when you are very emotional that it isn’t working, say to your very emotional partner “we talked about adoption if this didn’t work” - or whatever.
I’m with Girl from Mars and **Sattua **here. Some people will tell you that fertility treatments like IVF are hellish, and the hormones make you crazy. But this is not true for everyone. We went straight to IVF for various reasons, and was on a short protocol. Two weeks of easy injections, a couple of minor procedures and that was it. If you are lucky enough to get pregnant at the end of all that, you have way more to deal with over the next 9 months in terms of needles and discomfort and pain. And I don’t say that to scare you, just to reassure you that if that is a route you go down, most likely you will cope fine.
I second this recommendation. Reading all those blogs (and all the helpful advice on Stirrup Queens itself) really got me prepared and up to speed for what was in front of me.
Thank you all, and I hope this isn’t stirring up too much pain for anyone. I know how hard some of these decisions can be.
EmAnJ I have seen several posts of yours before about your pregnancies and losses, I’m very grateful that you were ok to post here, and thanks for the links in particular.
Dangerosa - again, I’ve seen enough stuff you’ve posted over the years to have some appreciation of your situation, at least the details you’ve shared. I hope it isn’t patronising to say that I’ve always admired the way you’ve spoken of your choices and your adoption. It’s interesting what you’ve said here about adoption needing to be a choice, not a second best option. Obviously it’s something we’ve talked about hypothetically, but my gut feeling has always been that it’s not for us, and what you’ve said re-inforces that. Besides which, as I said, I’m 40 now and I suspect it may not be an option for us now.
Girl from Mars thank you for your thoughtful posts too.
You’re all right to say that it’s important to set limits. Part of the thing I’m struggling with is that we’re already moving the goalposts - we said no intervention, then I starting doing temperature monitoring, now I’m using the fertility monitor (it’s a pee on a stick kind of thing), and today I had my bloods taken. I know that my husband will do anything I ask (generally!) so I get the feeling how far we go with this will be down to me. And I just don’t know enough at the moment. I’m conflicted - although of course I suspect everyone who faces this is too. On the one hand, I have the most amazing chld already, I have what I thought I would be satisfied with. Plus, although I loved being pregnant, it wrecked my body and labour was hellish. Then I have family with fertility problems all round me - my parents took 10 years to conceive me, my brother (3 years younger) is now expecting his second IVF baby. I can’t escape the fact that I do really really want another baby.
I’m going to spend some time on the links that everyone has posted, and obviously talk to my doctor in the next few weeks, but it sounds like our options will depend on any results of tests on the two of use, which makes sense.
Some background if it helps: I’m in the UK and one thing I do know for sure is that the NHS will not pay for IVF, as we already have a child. I’m not sure how much else they will pay for. I do have private medical insurance, but typically fertility is directly excluded - I’m going to check my policy. IVF costs about £5k a pop here, so it sounds cheaper than the US, but would still mount up quickly. We can afford it if we have to, and if we decide to go that far, but not indefinitely. I am determinedly atheist and I don’t believe that an embyro is a child, but I like the idea of donation of ‘spares’.
One thing that intrigues me is the acupuncture idea. I’ve seen other people mention this, but the scientist in me can’t accept that it works at all. How could it? And yet… anyone have any specific experience? EmAnJ did you do it just for a short time?
ETA: Neeps, you snuck in there, but you’re right. I’ve heard that IVF is horribly painful and invasive, and it does alarm me a little. Then I get to beat myself up, since of course if I really wanted a child, I wouldn’t mind all that! (Yes, I have guilt issues, how can you tell?). It’s reassuring when you and others say it’s not necessarily that bad.
My company does not do business in the UK but I have some exposure to it. You should get online and check the Human Fertilisation & Embryology Authority government website: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/
That will be the best way to learn about clinics in your area, understand their success rates and see what you can learn about coverage. In my conversations with UK physicians, I know they are very dialed into what gets covered from postcode to postcode, so you would do well to call your local Fertility practices and ask them.
Again, I have no personal experience, but there are many UK docs with great reputations. The organization known as CARE has many practices and a rep: http://www.carefertility.com/
Best of luck.
Honestly, the worst part for me was the agonising over deciding what to do, not the actual IVF. That was a relative breeze. Like you, I’m in the UK, and although we didn’t have a child, and were on the NHS waiting list, we decided to go privately to make things happen more quickly. We’d already waited 3 years, and didn’t want another year or more on top of that. Obviously, now were are ineligible for NHS treatment, so if we want another baby (and we do), we’ll have to keep trying the old fashioned way and hope, or maybe go for IVF again. It’s something we are already talking about and my baby is only 5 months old!
If you want any information from a British perspective on IVF treatment, just let me know or send me a PM. It was only last year that we went through all this.
**WordMan **is correct, though - check out the HFEA website. All the relevant info for fertility clinics can be found there. It’s pretty comprehensive and gives you all sorts of information about the clincs you are thinking about using.
My advice, for what it’s worth, is much the same as other people’s. Try picturing yourself in 10 or 20 years. How would you like your family to look? And then think about what you would be willing to go through to get there.
Honestly, the stage you are at at the moment is the worst. Already been trying for a couple of years, and at the beginning of testing. All the options are swimming in front of you, with huge sums of money attached. If you can fight your way through that, and come to a decision about what you are willing to do do, you will hopefully feel much better. Good luck - I know how infertility can take over your life and make you miserable. Don’t let anyone tell you that you should be grateful that you already have one child. That’s rubbish, especially if there is another child-shaped hole in your life.
From what I understand, acupuncture works cumulatively, so just doing it a couple of times and stopping won’t help much, nor will going in spurts. It’s like yoga - you won’t maintain or increase your flexibility and balance by going for two weeks, stopping for a month, then going for five days, stopping for two weeks, etc.
I started at the beginning of July and still going (I currently go every two weeks, but in July was going once a week). When I arrive at my appointment, we talk about where in my cycle I am and what we should cover during that appointment. She also asks me about any issues I’m having with sleep (I have problems sleeping sometimes) and my mood. She bases the treatment on those aspects.
I know a lot of people think it’s hooky, but acupuncture and traditional chinese medicine actually has had a number of studies performed to determine the success of treatment. One thing to remember about acupuncture and TCM is that they work over the long term, you often won’t get immediate results (but may, as in my case).
Also, my insurance covers acupuncture, so it’s a bit easier for me to afford it as part of my fertility plan.
Well, no offense, I hope, but an alternative explanation for this cumulative effect might be that acupuncture is not doing anything in particular, but the longer you go, the more chance you have of getting pregnant, all other things being equal. IYSWIM.
We did what is recommended - decide ahead of time how much you want to go thru. The doctors kept saying there was nothing wrong with either of us, but no pregnancy ever occurred, so we went on to other options.
Unexplained infertility is not uncommon (cite).
Regards,
Shodan
Since nobody threw rocks at me for my first interjection, I’ll add a second… have you been monitoring your cervical mucus? It’s possible that you aren’t making much or of the right quality, and that can impede fertility. While you’re waiting for doctors to figure out what’s wrong and insurance to figure out if they’ll pay for it, you might play around with mucus-boosting supplements (Evening Primrose Oil, white grapefruit juice) and sperm-friendly lubricants (PreSeed). Stopping allergy medicines, and taking guaifenesin on The Day, are also rumored to help.
Could be. It could also be a bit of a placebo effect too. Either way, it’s relaxing, it gives me some measure of hope, and insurance covers it. May as well give it a shot.
I only got as far as the planning stages of an IVF cycle but they made us decide what to do with any spares before we got started. We had the options of donating them to other infertile parents, donating them to science, or destroying them. We had to designate which of those options we would choose for several scenarios including if we never successfully conceived but chose to end treatment without using up all our embryos, if we completed our family, if we split up, if one of us died (IIRC). I was ok with donating to science but my ex wasn’t, so we said donate to infertile couples if we finished our family, but neither of us was comfortable donating if we failed to conceive or if we’d split up so we chose destroy for those scenarios.
I’d just like to add my 2 cents that since the OP is over 40 I would think that she would go right to IVF (after testing for both male and female infertility). Many people I know think that women can easily get pregnant into their mid-forties and that is typically not the case. After 40, fertility starts to plummet alarmingly.
I have two IVF babies (born when I was 36 and 39) out of 9 attempts – both “fresh” and “frozen” cycles. Mr Boozilu and I had a long talk about how far we were willing to go with money and hormones – for our second baby, we entered a guarantee-type arrangement: We paid slightly more than a single-round cost for up to 4 IVF cycles (with our money back if it didn’t take). I don’t know if you have that kind of thing in the UK – may be worth checking into. And make sure you use a fertility center with a lot of experience. The treatment changes in the three years between our children were dramatic.
Good luck – I know that secondary infertility can be stressful.
(I am not a doctor or medical professional)
I also did acupuncture through a gynocological acupuncturist (one specialising in female issues). Did it regularly while they were investigating what was wrong, and then we did a couple of sessions to be complementary to the IVF (the night before, and a couple of hours after egg transfer).
I have a science background as well, and I was skeptical about how it helped, but some Danish and German studies have shown a positive studies when done in conjuction with IVF. I’ve heard 2 theories - one is that it relaxes you, and anything that does that can only help encourage your body to feel like now is a good time to get pregnant. The other is that it helps calm vibrations and muscle tremors in the body. Given that the uterus is constantly contracting it could be that by stilling this a little, it provides optimum conditions for implantation. Basically I figured what could it hurt (and it doesn’t, really tiny needles!)
Regardless, I do feel it contributed to our success. I was also doing yoga 3-4x a week (and right up until I went into labour) and that also helped with ‘mind stillness’. I felt much more calm and accepting of the treatment as we were going through it, I think because of that.
I had a very similar history to yours - got pregnant with my first at 35 with no trouble (3 months), decided I wanted another when she was not quite two, didn’t conceive for a year. I sought help at that point, and I had an IVF baby a couple days before my 40th birthday. My IVF cycle was not nearly the nightmare that people write about - it was very easy compared to pregnancy and birth.
I will agree with everyone else that deciding in advance where your limits are is a good idea. We didn’t really hit ours, because I got pregnant on my first cycle. I have a colleague who (some 15 years ago), spent three quarters of a million dollars trying to get pregnant a second time, and never succeeded. Their first (and only) daughter is in college now.
At 40, you should be moving fast. This is not a time to dither. Do you know what cycle day you were when your blood was drawn? You should get a day-3 FSH done, at least, and an ultrasound to look at your follicles.
I found this book helpful in understanding what the various hormones do in a normal cycle and generally how IVF treatment works. Be aware that the author is very opinionated, though - IVF or bust, ASAP.
Good luck!
The acupuncture thing will probably do no harm, provided he sterilizes his needles as you should insist he does, in front of you, although it will probably do no good either. Up to you, of course.
As far as other advice -
[ul][li]Everybody will tell your husband to wear boxer shorts. This seems to be the one piece of advice that has penetrated the public consciousness about fertility.[/li][li]Lots of people will feel free to offer advice on how to conceive. If you can, be kind - they usually mean well. [/li][li]Sooner or later, someone will tell you to adopt and then you will get pregnant. FTR, this is an urban legend - infertile couples do not increase their chances of conception if they adopt vs. if they don’t. [/ul][/li]
FWIW.
Regards,
Shodan
Because the OP asked for all options, here I am:
When I married my husband we already knew he was sterile. After some heartfelt discussions and much thought, we chose to NOT opt for fertility treatments at all, even if, at that point, it probably would have been simple sperm donation. While not everyone would make that choice, we have been pretty content with it. You don’t have to have children, or another child. It’s perfectly OK to stop where you are, anytime you want to.
I didn’t want to leave this without saying thank you again for all the suggestions and constructive words, it’s very much appreciated. I feel very slightly less at sea than I did, and a bit more prepared to think about the decisions we’re going to have to make.
ENugent three quarters of a million dollars? jeez. That’s so very sad - that must have taken over their whole life. Poor people. (Well, especially after they spent all that money!)
You are welcome.
I think its fairly common in the fertility community to know someone who had this take over their entire life. In my world, its my cousin. Who delayed children, couldn’t conceive, spent fifteen years and hundreds of thousands of dollars, let it become such a disappointment in her life that she broke ties to friends and relatives with kids (except her immediate family) because it hurt too much.
That’s why my advice is “think through the end game.” People can be a happy fulfilled person with bio kids, with adopted kids or childless - but you might have to decide that the choice you made second is as good as the choice you started with. What you can’t do is be a happy and fulfilled person chasing fertility for fifteen years. Or maybe you can, to me, it looks like misery.
I suppose that my only problem with this advice is that, for me anyway, I didn’t know how I felt about many things until I was faced with the choice. You never think you’re going to have to go as far as you eventually you do. I think that for a lot of people, they only know when they’ve reached the end of the road once they get there.
It doesn’t mean you can’t talk through the options, try and decide how you feel about procedures, or adoption, but at the end of the day, it may just be a gut feeling once you get to the end of the road.
One thing that helped me was counselling. Our fertility clinic offered counselling, which was free for anyone who was going through treatment, or you could pay for it beforehand if you so wished. The counsellor was trained in infertility, and a member of BICA (British Infertility Counselling Association). If you have any doubts about what your thoughts are about the whole issue, talking to one of these counsellors may help you organise your thoughts, and make sure that both of you are on the same page.
Infertility brought me and my husband closer together, but that isn’t always the outcome. Counselling might help you get through the rough bits.
Oh, I completely think you should be able to change your mind during the process. To go “just one more round” - or five, or ten. To say “well, maybe adoption is a good choice for us after all.” Or to start the adoption path and pull back and say “you know, we are actually fine without kids.”
But thinking about it and talking about “what if this doesn’t work” is helpful. It acknowledges that infertility isn’t a state where the end is always a pregnancy.
(In my case, we went less far than we intended - the fertility drugs made me nuts and we weren’t having fun. We went from “we probably wouldn’t adopt” to “pack up the syringes, we are heading to an adoption orientation!” as the reality of what treatment did to me sunk in pretty fast. We were supposed to have another four months of drugs…and then talk about IVF. We decided since I wasn’t handling drugs well - or the invasive nature of treatment - infertility treatments weren’t the right path for us. I tend to tolerate something for a long time, then loose it and change direction very quickly.)