Tell me about gambling in the US

Factual Questions
1

Few questions to clarify my limited understanding of US gambling laws:

  1. I understand gambling laws vary from state to state, obviously everybody knows about Vegas. Roughly how many states allow gambling Las Vegas style? Are there any big differences between states that do allow gambling, e.g. do some have prize limits or maximum stakes etc?

  2. Is there any differentiation between different types of gambling in terms of the law? I mean, i think playing the lottery is legal everywhere right? What about bingo, sports betting etc?

  3. What the situation with online gambling exactly? I believe this is a federal law so it’s illegal everywhere in the US, is that right? How is this enforced exactly? I play online poker a lot and i’ve noticed a huge increase in the number of ‘Canadians’ that now play, why is that exactly? :wink:

  4. Lastly, how prevalent is illegal gambling? And what is the unofficial line, is it something that the law will turn a blind eye to if it’s small scale? I mean, you could arrange an office sweep or something without getting arrested couldn’t you? And regardless of how strict the law enforcement is, is it a socially acceptable crime?

2

I am not sure about how many states allow Las Vegas style gambling. Louisiana, Mississippi, New Jersey, and Nevada have Las Vegas style gambling. However, there is gambling all over the place on the Indian Reservations which aren’t subject to many kinds of federal and state laws so Indian tribes build casinos to make money. Foxwoods casino in Connecticut is among the biggest casinos in the world and it was allowed because a few people traced their ancestry to being a small part of an Indian tribe and then fought for the land to build a casino.

The laws are all over the place. Not all states have lotteries and some don’t allow bingo gambling. Legalized sports betting is probably the rarest of all. That is mainly restricted to Las Vegas.

On-line gambling was ignored until recently. The existing laws didn’t handle it well so not much was done. There are threats of federal action now but I haven’t heard of any big crackdowns yet.

Small scale gambling is everywhere. People even do it in office pools. I have never heard of gambling of that type being busted. Other kinds like professionally run sports betting (bookies) are prosecuted.

3

Small-scale gambling (like a gathering of friends for poker) is very common. I have heard a police officer explicitly say that the “folks down at the station” are known to occasionally have betting pools on major sports events and the like, and have never personally heard of such a small-scale type betting situation ever being cracked down on. So, it is socially acceptable to an extent.

4

Utah, Hawaii and Tennessee are the only states that have no forms of legalized gambling (cite).

5

Do to new laws regulating online gambling in the US it is effectivly illegal. Companies can’t economically meet the regulations and/or are unwilling to try. Enforcing the regulations has only been proven effective against sites physicaly located in the US. As almost all the online gambling sites are not based in the US, they continued on as if nothing happened. A few of the larger ones closed all their US customer accounts. The companies have nothing preventing a US citizen from claiming they are a Canadian and opening an account.

6

I would be interested in seeing cites for the claims here, as it conflicts with everything I’ve read to date on the topic.

7

Then somebody better tell the folks running the Tennessee Lottery…

http://www.tnlottery.com/

8

Florida has:
1)“Vegas rooms”, which are typically strip mall locations in shady areas that are full of video poker and video gambling machines. They exist because their owners claim they are “games of skill”, but there is much debate about outlawing these.

2)Casinos on Native American land

3)Casino cruise boats which leave and head out to international waters for a few hours.

4)Horse/Dog tracks

5)Poker rooms, with the stipulation that any round of betting may only have 2 raising bets, with a limit of $2.00

In addition, some poker rooms run NL Holdem tourneys, stating that the bets are for chips only, and not real cash, so therefore they do not violate the betting rules above. For awhile, this worked, then it was deemed illegal, however last year the poker rooms won either a court case or an injunction, and the tourneys are back on.

9

Now this is a different category. Is there a place where gathering of friends for poker is actually illegal? Parimutuel betting without a house rake and games of skill are legal everywhere, no?

10

This is incorrect. The legality of online gambling is a rather hotly debated topic in some quarters. The DOJ maintains that The Wire Act of 1961 makes online gambling illegal, but Courts (Notably the 5th Circuit Court) have ruled that the Wire Act does no such thing. The Supreme Court has not taken up the issue.

Last year, The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) was tacked on to a port security bill, passed, and signed into law. It was popularly referred to as “an online poker ban.” Or “an online gambling ban.” These portrayals are false. The UIGEA contains a number of provisions against using credit cards and the like for the purpose of “betting, receiving or transmitting a bet that is illegal under federal, state or tribal law.” There are no provisions that criminalize any sort of bet. The question of what constitutes an illegal bet is not addressed (although a number of examples of things that are not illegal bets are exempted), which leaves us with the Wire Act.

The UIGEA did force the largest poker room, PartyPoker.com, to shut out US players, since PartyPoker’s parent is publicly traded on the London Stock Exchange and can’t risk its business on something which may or may not be legal.

For a biased but thorough examination of the UIGEA, check out this article.

I predict that the Supreme Court will have to rule on the issue soon. Until that happens, or more legislation is passed, the legality will remain murky.

IANAL, etc.

11

This is like passing a law that makes it illegal to carry your wallet into a casino. It doesn’t explicitly forbid any of the games, but it makes it impossible to participate without overtly breaking the law. To say that it was not intended as a ban is disingenuous.

12

Nope. The UIGEA only addresses U.S. players’ funding of such sites, and it will be 7 or so months before the regulations of financial institutions addressing this issue are in place. As pointed out, despite the position of some within the DOJ, there has never been a judicial ruling that it is illegal for U.S. people to play real-cash internet poker.

As best as I recall the articles, IANYL, etc.

13

But playing online poker (or blackjack, craps, etc.) is NOT overtly breaking the law! That was my whole point. Therefore, the UIGEA does not make it a crime to fund an online poker account, and it is still possible to send money to PokerStars (or wherever) and play without explicitly breaking any laws.

The UIGEA was intended to be a ban, of course. (I personally believe it was intended primarily to further some political careers, but that’s another story.) But the fact remains that the UIGEA only applies to “illegal bets,” and online gambling may or may not be illegal betting.

14

As of 2004 mid year :
11 states allowed commercial casinos(*);
6 had riverboat or dockside casinos;
23 states had within their borders casinos that are owned and operated by American Indian tribes.

40 states had a Lottery
41 states have horse racing, dog racing or jai-alai.

(*my understanding is that WV will soon have it as well and

15

Thanks for all the answers guys. It seems that the internet position is still somewhat dubious. I wonder why party got scared enough to cancel all US acounts, that must have been a huge part of their business they lost in one fell swoop. I’m also curious how much of that business came back to them as ‘Canadians’.

Going off on a tangent somewhat, but can anyone explain what legal obligations a non-US based site has to prevent US residents form playing there? Assuming, for the purposes of this question, a properly and unambiguously worded law was brought into force in the US.

Oh, and nobody has commented much on the illegal gambling stuff. Not looking for any specifics, just curious as TV and movies often have characters talking about going to see their bookie and it’s often portrayed as if it’s a dodgy underworld type of thing.

16

None. The United States can’t force compliance beyond its borders. Now, the US could do things like impose sanctions on countries that it deems don’t do enough to stop US gamblers from playing but politically and diplomatically that’s rather dodgy. It may also be in violation of the U.S.'s treaty obligations. Antigua has initiated action under NAFTA, claiming that US attempts to ban offshore gaming is a violation. The body that rules on such things has sided with Antigua, but since the only penalty open under NAFTA is economic sanctions and since imposing such sanctions on the US would devastate Antigua and not affect the US mush at all, the US has decided to thumb its nose at its treaty obligations. Antigua has initiated some additional action but I’m not sure what the status of that is.

Well, there’s not really a factual answer to that question. I suppose one could dig up statistics and some anecdotal stuff on various arrests for gambling or running office pools or the like.

17

Its everywhere. Go into a local bar in Philly and you are sure to find someone who takes sports and racing bets. Now whether there is someone shady bankrolling it or if its just some local schlub, I am sure there is but I couldn’t say who. My guess would be is that if you are way under water, I wouldn’t wait for someone to come and collect before paying.

18

I read an interesting article in an issue of Bluff magazine last year about the legality of friendly poker games for cash. No cite right now, as I’m overseas on business.
The bottom line: while the law varies greatly depending on locality, as a rule of thumb, cash games between friends are generally legal as long as there’s no rake, meaning I can’t charge a fee or percentage of a pot when I host a game at my house.

The author of the article included several cites, including a case in Colorado where a fellow was sued in small claims court over a poker debt. The defendant claimed that the debt was unenforcable, due to being the result of gambling. The judge considered the debt valid and a normal social obligation. The defendant was ordered to pay. I’ll have to see if I can find a cite.

19

Keep in mind casinos are very different state to state. Indian reservations are not “anything goes” like some people seem to believe.

For example, in Oklahoma, Indian casinos can have slots, bingo, and games where the house only takes a rake. So poker is OK, but no craps, roulette, or baccarat. They do have blackjack, but here’s the catch: 50 cent per hand ante that goes to the house. All other winnings by the house go into a pool that must be redistributed to the players in a tourney or other special event, like 21 with both dealer’s cards up. (Yes, it’s real, played it, won a fair amount of money, but max bets are low by law so you can’t wipe anyone out, and it’s maybe one day a year; are only heard about it from a friend who deals poker at the casino) The funny thing is Oklahoma just got the lottery a year or so ago, and people threw a shit fit.

The rest of these entries are just observations, might be outdated, might be bad recollection, just made by one frequently traveling insomniac:

Nevada: Anything goes across the state. Only place in the US I am aware of that you can bet on sports (besides horses, dogs, and Latin dudes with baskets on their arms) So when, I say “anything goes” below, I mean besides sports. Also, you can’t bet on things like the Brits do, such as, who will win the best picture Oscar, or what kind of haircut will Beckham have next season, and so forth. Nevada is “International Waters” of the US though. Drink all night, drink on the street, not a big deal. Only place in the US with legal cathouses, although in only a few counties, and not Clark County, where Las Vegas is. Just for reference for foreign dopers.

Texas: Horse tracks and lottery for sure. NO legal casinos of any kind. On I-35 the TX-OK border is lit up with one big ass Indian casino on the Oklahoma side and a porn shop selling penetration vids across the Texas line (illegal in OK)

Kansas: Kansas City casinos I think are anything goes. I know I’ve thrown dice there so that’s a good sign. In Kansas Indian reservations, they have casinos with slots, blackjack, and poker, but I don’t think they have luck games like craps. Kansas City only has 3 or 4 casinos, so they keep them limited by law or by the market, not sure. (My pal’s favorite trick when he picks people up from the airport is to drive them to some house in the hood, get out, and after some protest say, "Harrah’s Casino? I thought you said Harry’s Casino!” laughs, and so on)

Colorado: They have some kind of Casinos but I have never been there. None in Denver, no one I know who has been has many high praises to report, so I picturing a warehouse full of old people and slot machines.

Louisiana: I’ve been to one full service casino in New Orleans. How there is only one, I don’t know. Sounds shady, like Louisiana politics should sound.

South Dakota: Lots of truck stops have slot machines, like lots of truck stops up north do. There are Indian casinos that have regular 21 and poker. Never seen a dice table, not sure if that’s by law or by market. Tribes in the Dakotas seem to have retained more sovereignty than tribes in Oklahoma, however.

California: Has had card rooms for decades. Probably poker tables with a rake, they’ve been doing it way before poker was “cool with the kids”. Never been. I hate poker.

20

If you can’t do it in Nevada - is there nowhere you can legally bet on who will win the 2008 Presidential elections?

This must be a violation of somebody’s civil rights. This is the saving grace of democracy. Bet on the bunch you want to lose, then if they win you at least have some cash to console you. :smiley: