Tell me about natural gas!

Factual Questions
1

The only place I’ve ever lived that had any gas appliances was in the California mountains back when I was a kid… and that was propane, delivered by a truck, and it was only for the water heater and stove.

Now I’m planning to move at the end of this month, and one of the places I’m considering has natural gas for the furnace and water heater (and maybe the dryer, I forgot to check), but not the stove. What should I know if I’m going to move in there?

First, how about the price? Gasoline prices have gone up a lot, but can I expect natural gas to be expensive too, or do the appliances tend to be more efficient? I’m used to electricity being pretty cheap - at my current apartment, with electric everything, my power bill doesn’t go above $60-$70 in the coldest months.

Second, what’s the deal with pilot lights? How much work am I going to have to do to keep the things running in the basement - and why don’t large appliances light themselves, anyway?

Third, why is the stove electric if the house is already connected to gas? My trained-chef friend tells me a flame is better for cooking, but her house is set up the same way!

Fourth (bonus): the furnace is at least 40 years old, and from what I could tell, it was originally powered by some kind of solid fuel and then converted. There’s a metal door on the front that pulls open with a handle made out of a spring, and inside it there was a little compartment that seemed empty. Below that, there’s another similar panel with a pipe connected to it, and the same pipes connect to the water heater. Is it likely that it was converted - if not, what could that door be?

(Sorry for all the vague questions. The landlord’s wife was the only one there and she didn’t seem to know the technical details. I might be able to get pictures in the next few days.)

2

In my house the furnaces (we have two heating zones), hot water heater, stove and clothes dryer all run on natural gas. I live in New England so the winters get relatively cold.

I can’t help you with specific price information right now. I can tell you though that the price of gasoline and the price of natural gas don’t move together. They come from different sources in general and are processed and delivered to the consumer through very different paths. Also AFAIK there is no easy way to convert one to the other. This is in contrast to the situation with home heating oil, which shares the same raw material with gasoline and so price changes in one commodity tends to affect the price of the other.

Our house is ten years old and none of the appliances are older than that. The stove, dryer and furnaces all have electronic ignition and I have never had to fuss with pilot lights on them. The hot water heater does have a pilot light which went out inexplicably last year. It became obvious when there was no hot water. The light was very easy to re-light, the directions were printed right on the heater.

I don’t know why the stove would be electric. Maybe the house wasn’t originally connected to the gas line, and the stove is from that time? Or else someone really preferred cooking with an electric stove.

OK, I found where my wife hid the gas bills, and I am reminded: see if the gas company has a budget plan where you can spread your payments out over the course of the year. That way you don’t end up paying through the nose in the winter, and practically nothing in the summer.

Our bill for gas last February was $361 but we only paid $168 because of the budget plan. By August our charges for gas were down to $35. Again, this is for a 2300 sq. ft. house with 2 zones, 3 people, in the Greater Boston Metropolitan Area. It is my understanding that we pay more for natural gas up here than many other parts of the country because of supply and distribution bottlenecks.

3

In Texas, natural gas is fairly common. It’s usually cheaper to operate appliances on gas than electricity. Modern appliances don’t have pilot lights anymore. IIRC, gas appliances are typically a little more expensive to purchase, so you have to be assured of living with them for some period of time to recoup the cost. That may be one reason why a gas home would have electric appliances.

4

My furnace is gas and my stove is electric. There’s no gaspipe back there, so I assume one was never installed, or that it became damaged at some point and was removed.

5

I have a house in Winnipeg.

Natural gas (forced air) furnaces are very common in Winnipeg. I wouldn’t want anything else. The hot water tank is also natural gas and I’m very happy with it, though I would have been just as happy with electric. The range is electric. I would have preferred a gas range, but the house is not plumbed for it and it isn’t worth it to me to have this done.

Although ~80% of Winnipeg houses do have natural gas furnaces, natural gas ranges are rare. I don’t know why. Natural gas and electric dryers work equally well IMO, therefore I don’t see the benefit of a gas dryer (costs more than electric).

Pilot lights aren’t much of an issue. In the five years that I’ve the house, I’ve had to have pilot lights re-lit twice. The utility company had the service off for an afternoon for maintenance and they re-lit furnace and hot water tank. And I had a part fail on the furnace which the service tech replaced and re-lit the pilot light. Pilot lights don’t really go out without a reason. If you are faced with re-lighting it yourself, it isn’t difficult or unsafe if you follow directions for your specific appliance. The gas utility in Winnipeg offers free re-lights - your utility might too.

You’re likely correct about the furnace conversion. Given the approximate age of the furnace, anticipate replacing it at some point. New furnaces range in price from about $800 to $2500 depending on area to heat, efficiency of furnace and other factors.

My cost experience furnace and hot water is about $190 during the coldest months (remember Winnipeg has -35 as the temperature during the coldest months) and about $35 during the summer when the furnace is not on. The house is 1100 sq feet.

6

All ya’ll with hot water heaters need to turn them off. Hot water doesn’t need heating. :slight_smile:

7

Are you saying this is ALWAYS the case? Or is it just the case where you live?

It seems to me this would depend on a lot of factors, including but not limited to:

  1. What you pay for gas.

  2. What you pay for electricity.

  3. The specific models of dryer in question and maybe even

  4. The size of loads usually run.

8

First, you hit the beer store, and on the way home, get a takeout order from Burrito Billy’s, and a short time later, you have an abundance of natural gas! :stuck_out_tongue: :eek: :smiley:

Oh! You didn’t mean that kind of gas? Sorry. Never mind. :wink:

9

Efficiency, of course, varies from appliance to appliance. Without seeing a picture, it appears that you have an old “conversion” unit; one that initially burned coal and was converted to natural gas in the 40’s or 50’s [typically].

I don’t know how big thuis place is, (or where you live) but if it is indeed a conversion unit you will pay much more than $60-70. Possibly much, much more.

If this is true, the furnace is 50% efficient or less; meaning 50% of the Btus you pay for go out the chimney. The door was where coal was initially loaded into the heater. Later a burner section was added (it will be below the door) with a gas regulator, gears and other contraptions. Likely a square blower unit was added to the side of the furnace with a belt driven blower. This was probably done in the early 50’s. The pipes, if they’re small, is the gas line that serves both appliances. If they’re larger 3"-6" and on top, they’re the flues that run to the chimney.

Unless the house was updated, the windows and doors are similarly inefficient. There may be no insulation in the walls of any kind. (common on houses before 1930ish)

I don’t want to scare you, but you may be in for a surprise. Your utility costs may be significantly higher than you’re used to.

My recommendation: Get a setback thermostat, and some comfy sweaters from LL Bean.

10

You’re absolultley correct. I haven’t done a cost benefit analysis.

My opinion comes from having used both gas and electric dryers in typical residential applications and observing that they both dry clothes in an equally acceptable fashion.

While shopping for a new dryer, I determined that gas models are more expensive than similar electric models.

Assuming that maintenance costs are comperable, operating costs of gas dryers appear to be more favourable (if local utility rates are typical) than electric to the extent that higher capital costs can be justified. This guy has done far more research than I ever will.

The contents of this post are for general information only and do not constitute professional advice. While qwest makes every effort to maintain the accuracy of the information in this post, he cannot accept responsibility for any claim, loss or damage which may occur from the use of the information. The reader assumes full responsibility for using the information in this post.

Links to other sites from this post are for information only and qwest accepts no responsibility or liability for information contained on any site which is linked from or to this post. YMMV, Offer subject to approved financing.

11

Well, biofuels are the wave of the future…

12

I refuse to live in a house with electric heat for the simple reason that our winters sometimes get harsh enough that the electricity will go out–sometimes for days. I don’t like freezing to death. I moved to Oregon in '96, right after a horrendous winter in which the West Hills went without power for three days during a snowstorm, and I heard some tales of what it was like to be stuck in a freezing cold apartment with no heat and no way to get any–no thank you! I’m planning on running a gas line to the other side of the house in order to install a gas water heater and a gas stove as well–cost wise it works out well, as even in mid summer (with no a/c and all light bulbs are compact fluorescent) my electric bill runs at least sixty bucks a month, but even in mid winter the gas bill doesn’t go over that much. I’d rather be paying NW Natural for gas than paying PGE for its share of the Enron debacle any day… My electric bill just keeps going up, but my KwH/day is either staying the same or dropping a bit–this makes no damned sense to me and I’d rather remove myself from their extortionate billing practices. Besides, if I have gas appliances I can always go from natural gas to propane without a major hassle–I can pick up a 500 gallon propane tank for very little, then go shopping for the best price to supplement the piped in gas.

Now if I could just get off the grid for Portland Water I’d be all set! Don’t get me started on THOSE jackasses!

13

Whoa!

It’s not that easy. Appliances that are set up for natural can’t be easily switched over because you set a propane tank in the back yard. Some NG applainces cannot be converted to LP. While most can, it requires a conversion and a qualified technician to do so. In my experience, the older the appliance, the less likely you’ll find an appropriate conversion.

If I read your post correctly, you’re proposing a “duel fuel” arrangement wherein you can switch between one or the other. (by shopping for the best price to “supplement” the piped in gas)

Not gonna happen. (easily anyway…)

Every switchover will require a qualified technician to convert back to the other fuel. This will involve purging lines, switching springs in your gas valve, and resetting the gas pressures. (LP will operate at about 3X the operating pressure of NG) The cost of the technician should be $125ish to $175ish I would guess. That’s a real cost, and one that has to be planned/scheduled.

It’s not as easy as flipping a few valves.

14

Unless you have a wall furnace with a millivolt thermostat, or an old “gravity” central furnace that has no blower, you’ll still be without heat. Regular thermostats and gas valves run on AC power, as do blowers and fans.

15

Here are a few photos of the furnace to help with question #4.

16

*:dubious: Imagines people with pipes up their :eek: *