Tell me about self publishing

Despite most of my time recently being spent feeding/changing/burping/snuggling the baby and much of the rest of it trying my damnedest to get a few hours of sleep I have managed to write a couple of children’s books. I woke up one morning and explained to my husband that I’d had a dream that I had won an award for writing a children’s book. I could still remember the story and as I was telling him about this imaginary book I wrote he looked at me and said, “So write it. Go put it in writing right now so you don’t forget it.”

Well, I did. And it is awesome. It is so awesome that I immediately wrote a second one based on the same main character. I’ve got an idea for a third book but I’ve stopped myself from writing it down right this moment because I’d like to actually do something more with these stories than just tell them to my kid, you know? I’ve looked into the possibility of finding a literary agent and going through a legitimate publisher but that seems unappealing to me. It can take months or years to even find someone who is willing to look at your stuff and once they look at it that doesn’t mean they will publish it for you. If you do find someone to publish it they take an insane percentage of the profit so you only make a few cents a book if you don’t already have a bestseller or two to use as leverage when negotiating your contract. Once they have published your stuff unless they truly believe you will sell a million billion copies they pretty much leave the marketing end of it to you.

My mother-in-law just had a book published and she is dealing with the backlash of all of this stuff right now. She makes 15 cents for every book sold and they have done essentially nothing for her. She has sold about 80 books since September and almost all of those sales have come from either her friends and family or from sales pitches she has made when doing public readings and other promotional stuff she planned on her own. Her publisher and agent have done exactly nothing for her except bind the thing and give her a place to order copies of it. The worst part of this whole mess is that her book is excellent and the entire reason she decided to go through the process of finding an agent and getting this published through an established company is because she thought a team of professionals would be able to sell more copies and do a significant amount of marketing but so far her hopes seem to have fallen pretty flat. I truly believe that if she had it to do over again she would self publish her novel and leave out all the people that aren’t doing anything for her right now.

I’ve done some research and found a few print-on-demand self publishing companies online that seem like they would work. I’m leaning toward CreateSpace but there are other options out there as well. I have a friend who is a professional editor who will look over the books for me. I have a meeting scheduled with a friend of a friend who is an artist looking to expand his portfolio and might be interested in illustrating the books. I’ve looked into affordable ways to create marketing materials, researched copyrighting, come up with almost a dozen promotional ideas, etc., but before I jump too much further into this I’d like to hear from some other people about this process.

Have you ever self published a book? Do you have any recommendations for (or warnings against) a specific publishing site? Am I underestimating the benefit that a legitimate publisher and literary agent could provide?

I have no personal advice to give, but you might find the forums at Absolute Write helpful - particularly the Self Publishing forum (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=47 ) - the people at AW usually seem to know what they’re talking about!

Honestly, if you want to sell a lot of books you must do one helluva lot of marketing, including things like appearances. One advantage of a big publisher is, they do a lot of this marketing, and having an actual publisher behind you makes it easy to get into places like bookstores.

BUT, for children’s books there are other options. I know my son’s grade school was visited by several children’s authors each year, some traditionally published, some self-published. If you aren’t a big selling author the appearances are mostly on your dime, but you have the advantage of being close to a lot of major metropolitan areas that you can travel to within a couple of hours. Schools and libraries are a lot more welcoming than bookstores of self-published authors and you can usually bring copies to sell.

It may take months or years to find a literary agent, but it can also happen pretty quickly. I made myself an A-list of people who represented the kind of book I thought I was writing, mailed out 5 queries, got nibbles from 3 of the 5 agents I queried, and ended up with one representing me, in less than six weeks. (A 4th agent replied later saying she was interested, but by later I mean 7 months later, which was too late.) You might give that a try first, and then if it looks like it will take too much time, go the self-publishing route.

If you go with self-pub, be sure to look carefully at their contract and make sure you keep ALL the rights and don’t owe the publisher a right of first refusal on any subsequent books. I have set up and edited a couple of books for CreateSpace and they seem very easy to work with.

I don’t know a lot about this, but just thought I would mention that Amazon has a system in place for self-publishing e-books. It seems like it would be pretty easy to go from what you have to something you could sell pretty quickly and cheaply, and you could developa track record that may later entice agents and traditional publishers if you want to go that route.

My sister runs a small publishing operation that includes a children’s book line. Her end involves layout, lining up illustrators, printing and promotion. The deal, in general, is to split the sales revenue with the author; for any given item, that would likely be quite a lot more than 15 cents a copy. Promotion varies depending on book type and getting it out there for people to see does seem to be the most difficult part.

I can send you contact details if you want; PM me if so.

Yes. By a factor of thousands.

Seriously, you’ve got zillions of misconceptions about publishing in there. If your book is anywhere near as good as you believe, then you owe it to the book to at least find out the real info before you make decisions. I’m very far from an expert, but I have freelanced in the industry - I’m gonna try and scratch the surface, but for real info, another recommendation for absolutewrite.com. Read the other forums as well, not just the self-publishing one.

This is non-standard to the point where I have to wonder what agent and publisher she’s with. It sounds very much like they’re either scammers or just plain incompetent. A few reasons:

  • You don’t mention any advance. Some totally legit small presses don’t pay advances, but most good agents won’t submit to those presses (why would they? An agent only gets paid a percentage of what the writer gets paid, so if the writer gets nothing, there’s nothing in it for the agent).

  • Standard royalties start at about 8% of cover price, as far as I know. Unless her books sell for under two dollars each, she’s getting screwed on royalty rates.

  • Standard sales for a debut book from any decent publisher are a lot higher than 80 copies. And they should absolutely not come mainly from family and friends, or from the writer’s own efforts.

  • Any decent publisher does a LOT more than bind the thing.

  • She should not be ordering copies. This is wildly non-standard. Any decent publisher sends the author a box of free copies. Even small publishers will provide copies to a bookshop for signings, at no cost to the author. If the author ever, ever sends the publisher money, something is dodgy.

  • ‘Give her a place to order copies from’ sounds like this publisher isn’t getting books into bookshops. Which, except in the case of e-publishers, is the publisher’s job.

Can I ask if by any chance the ‘publisher’ is PublishAmerica? Because they’re not actually a publisher in any standard sense of the word - they’re a notorious reverse vanity press. (Instead of charging an upfront fee, they make money by selling books at inflated prices to the author and his/her family and friends, rather than by getting books into bookshops and selling them to strangers. Google ‘Atlanta Nights’.)

Well, yeah. Just like it can take months or years to be successful in any other career. It’s not just overnight millionairehood. It involves work, research, all the same stuff as any other career.

An agent take 15-20% of what you make (NO decent agent gets paid any other way than out of your advances/royalties) - but any decent agent more than makes that back. An agent can get you twice, or a hundred times, the advance you would’ve got on your own. And higher royalty rates.

You don’t only make a few cents a book. If your book is priced at $14.95 and you’re getting ten per cent of cover, that’s $1.50 per book. And remember, all big and medium publishers and many small ones pay an advance (which, by the way, you don’t have to pay back if it doesn’t earn out - that’s another common publishing myth).

You don’t need any bestsellers under your belt. Debut authors with no track recpord and no connections get four-, five- or six-figure deals all the time.

Self-publishing can work very well for niche non-fiction. If you’re the world’s foremost expert on left-handed gizmo fractals, then yeah, self-publishing is a pretty smart option - because you have a built-in audience, and when they go looking for a book on left-handed gizmo fractals, up you pop. But for fiction? How is anyone gonna find you? How do you find most of your books? By browsing bookshops, or by Googling ‘awesome kids’ book’ and seeing what pops up on CreateSpace?

I have to go to bed, but seriously - do a little research before you make a decision, check out absolutewrite, and I’d love to know the name of your mother-in-law’s ‘publisher’, because that is not how it normally works.

Besides the good stuff that eclectic wench said, here are some other factors.

  • You can market your book locally. Can you market it nationally?

  • Lots of the sales of childrens books are to libraries. A library is not going to buy your self-published book. The library two states over is certainly not going to buy it.

  • You can’t tell how much a book will sell. My wife has 3 junior high age non-fiction books published by Scholastic. In her last statement, one of them took off for some reason and she made back all her advance and some more. Why that and not the other two? Dunno. Maybe the sales people pushed it. BTW, these books to to school libraries mostly.

  • I hate to say this, but you think your book is great, and your husband does, and maybe your friends, but is it really great? An agent can give useful feedback. My understanding is that the childrens market has a lot of peculiarities, like reading level and vocabulary. Do you know about these? Do you know if the market is flooded with similar books?

You didn’t mention the age level these books are directed to, but if they are pitched fairly young, they need to be illustrated. Did you do that?

  • Yes, it might take a while but you’ve got plenty of time, unless you are writing about something very topical.

There was a guy in the critique group I used to go to who wrote a memoir. He was very impatient, so he basically self-published, using someone who claimed to be a publisher and didn’t edit it. Thus guy was in marketing, and managed to get on radio programs in his old home town. He still didn’t sell many. After hearing our critique, he was sorry he rushed into it, since he realized he could have a much better book with some outside input.

This is a typical sale for a self-published novel. 80 books is about average.

People don’t buy self-published novels. (How many of them have you paid for?)

The difference between self-publishing and commercial/small press publishing is that in self-publishing, it’s easy to get published, but extremely difficult to make any money from it, no matter how hard you work. In commercial/small press publishing, it’s very hard to get published, but once you get published, you’ll make money.

Self-publishing (and not vanity press publication; the two are very different) only works if you have a nonfiction books with a limited audience. A book of recipes for your church, for instance. My brother has been successful by self-publishing a book on Harmony Guitars; he sold out the first print run of 1000 copies and ordered another. Orders still come it. It’s not a best seller, and not a major source of income, but if you are a guitar aficionado (especially if you owned a Harmony guitar), you might pick up a copy.

But one bit of fiction is as good as any other, and as a reader you’re more likely to find something good from a mainstream press.

That doesn’t sound like self-publishing or commercial/small press publishing. It’s sounds line a vanity press. The first thing any commercial publisher does is promote the book*.

Did she pay the agent? Then she was ripped off. It sounds like she hired a scam agent who put her in touch with a vanity press.

They can – if you were writing a nonfiction book with a specific small audience. For fiction, it means that you will have to work your ass off promoting it. You’ll have to go into every bookstore and ask them to sell the book on consignment.

I can recommend Lulu.com as the printer; they treat everyone fairly and make no promises. You can set a cover price that allows bookstores to make a profit on selling the book (they should be able to keep at least half of the cover price).

But the marketing is a bitch. Think of any new book you read. What made you pick it up? Usually, people buy authors they’re familiar with. For new books, they pick up the book and read the blurb in a bookstore. The cover might appeal to them, too (people do judge books by their covers; that’s part of marketing – creating covers that will make people pick up the book).

Readings? How many readings have you been to? How many books have you bought at them?

Ads? How many novels from unknown authors have you purchased solely because of an ad or flyer?

People have been trying self-publishing and promotion for decades and for 99% of self-published authors (both vanity press and true self-publishing) the number of novels sold has remained constant at about 75, all to people the author personally spoke to. To make money on a book, it has to sell to people who have never met you and who has no chance of ever meeting you.

It’s frustrating being rejected by a commercial publisher. But at least you’re only out your postage. Self-publishing means you will be out hundreds and even thousands of dollars.

*Maybe not well, and sometimes you get caught in a change of editors. But that’s the general pattern. If you pay the publisher, they’ve made their money back and don’t care if the book sells or not.

This. My sister spent five years in an editorial department at a religous book publishing company. Her job was to screen the manuscripts sent in and filter out the blatantly bad ones to give the higher ups a better chance at picking out winners. Everyone of course thinks they’re book is the greatest, or they wouldn’t be trying to get it published, but my sister’s company would publish something that was sent in every couple of years, out of the several each day they received. Eventually the invevitable happened and they eliminated my sister’s position (she stayed on elsewhere in the company as receptionist and gopher.) and quit accepting unsolicited manuscripts.

All I know is that there are a shit-ton of small presses looking for content – mainstream or genre/fanfic novel? Maybe not. But now is – albeit maybe ten years too late – the time to get to know publishers in person or via listserv. People want to publish, and if you have something good, “they” will publish it.

Publication cats are your friend – but you have to meet them, because it’s a place where entry is cheap but they only want to drop cash on someone whom they know and like. That’s why the internet is good, and so forth.

For God’s sakes, stop right now and finish the third freaking book! before you lose it.

You have to have a product in order to market it.

Write out every single thing you can think of/ feel about your subject, while you’re sending out feelers about getting it published etc.

Those “hot spots” that interest you can lead to further treatments.

Personally, (and I should take my own advice) you might want to check into vanity press. As I understand it the current market is miserable because people are “plugged in” rather than choosing to turn a page. But if the story is good, THEY WILL COME.

Keep writing, all the time, while you try to figure out the business end of it all. Believe it or not, just because it comes natural to you doesn’t mean it’s a “throw-away” talent. There really AREN"T that many people who can do it well.

I’m excited for you and wish you the best of luck.

Sorry for asking, but – what about an illustrator? Do you have any ideas yet? Do you have a friend you can work with? Maybe that will help.

I spoke to a small press publisher at a writing conference, and he was not desperate for content. Maybe he’d love to see really good work that might be published in a larger market that he could get, but he seemed as overwhelmed by submissions as everyone else. Small presses are small because they don’t have a lot of money, and publishing anything is a major commitment.

Anyone can type. Writing is the hard part.

I wish somebody would have sat my husband’s friend down and told him this because it would have saved a lot of heartache, I think.

We – my husband and I, his friend and his wife – coauthored a book about caregiving. It was published via Create Space last summer. My husband and I didn’t expect to make any money at it because – well, that’s how self-publishing is. We donated quite a few copies to local libraries, and of course friends and family bought copies, but that was it.

The friend, OTOH…the minute he saw it wasn’t going anywhere, he walked away from everything. Never did any marketing himself, never maintained the website that tied in with the book, nothing. He basically left us holding the bag, which has unfortunately caused some very hard feelings on our end.

Just while I’ve got another sec: this is not only bollix, but a specific kind of bollix often peddled by vanity presses, which is another reason why I wonder if your mother-in-law’s got hooked by one of those.

How do you figure legit publishing houses turn a profit?

By selling books. And not just to the author’s family and friends, either - as you’ve noticed and as RealityChuck pointed out, 80 copies is about as much as you can hope to get out of that. Real publishing houses need to sell books to strangers, or they’ll go under.

And standard practice is NOT for them to leave that up to you (as your mother-in-law’s found out, that doesn’t work). Especially if you’re a debut author. That’s when they’ve got their best chance to blast you into J.K. Rowling territory. So debut authors actually get a fair whack of the publicity, sales and marketing time/money/manpower. So do the established bestsellers. The ones who get skimped on are the midlisters - the ones who, after five or six books, have built up respectable sales figures of maybe 25,000 copies per book* but just aren’t breaking into the top ranks. The publishers figure they’ve topped out their audience, those 25000 people will buy it no matter what and there aren’t a lot more potential readers out there. So they put the investment into the established bestseller - and into the newbie who could be the next bestseller.

It’s possible that you won’t see an awful lot of the publisher’s efforts - because they’re not out there handselling to individual readers. They’re selling within the industry, to booksellers. They’re working behind the scenes, making sure the book gets reviewed in trade publications, making sure booksellers everywhere are hearing buzz about it, convincing booksellers to take a dozen copies per bookshop instead of just one, convincing booksellers to read the book so they’ll fall in love with it and hand-sell it, convincing the NYT to review it, convincing radio stations to do interviews with you and bloggers to do pieces on you. That’s what works. Not hand-selling individual copies to your friends.
*notice how ‘respectable sales’ means five figures, not two

That’s a very real point – it has always been this way for various scribblers. I think since the seventies, relationships between publishers and authors have been paramount. There are probably, what, three dozen small presses in the rust belt alone, right? Some of what’s published tends to be a circle-jerk, and may not apply to mass-market softies fiction, or extremely technical stuff, but it isn’t all vanity out there.

I don’t see real small press publishers as vanity at all. There are some who claim to be small press publishers but charge you, but that is a different story.

The guy I talked to specialized in sf, which was why I booked an appointment. But I agree with your larger point, that you have to be very selective in finding a publisher, since they do specialize. It is also perfectly reasonable for them to prefer authors with some name value who for one reason or another thinks a particular book isn’t suitable for the mass market press.

I’ve edited some special issues of journals, and reviewed proposals for a lot more, and it is the same thing. You go after known names, since it is more likely that they can produce publishable papers. You send out a call for papers, and hope stuff comes in, but that which does is often pretty marginal.

I would like to add, if you think you want to take a few minutes to write up a query for an agent, focus on the first book but definitely mention that you have two more. Agents LOVE for you to have a series. They picture a book a year for the next 10 years, but they want it to be the same thing, only different enough, and better.

Ooh, good to know!

I will PM you shortly.

This was incredibly helpful. I’m not looking to write the next Goodnight Moon or anything but it would be nice to make a little money and share my story with the world.

As far as my MIL’s publisher is concerned it is not PublishAmerica. It is a legitimate small publisher in CT. I don’t want to mention them by name here but if you’d like I can PM you their information. Her experience with her book is what led me to believe that self-publishing might be a better way to go but if her experience is abnormal I will be glad to try and submit work through more traditional channels and see how that goes instead of writing off the industry as a whole.

Yes, PM me - I’m interested. The agent’s name too, if you want. Like I said, I’m no expert, but I do know what to look for, so I may be able to say something sensible about them. (Or not.)

If you end up going for commercial publishing, you don’t need an illustrator (unless you’re a professional illustrator and you want to illustrate it yourself, but I figure you’d have mentioned that). The publishing house will want to sort that out itself.