Tell me about WWII tank strategy, simply.

Well, it’s kind of a GQ, and it’s kind of about a game, but then there’s an opinion to it… crap, let’s try IMHO.

I’m attacking Columbia as the Nazi tank commander in a World War III kriegspiel scenario. I don’t know dick about tanks. Frankly, I don’t know dick about war - my boyfriend asked me so sweetly if I’d play in his war game to fill out the numbers, and I did have a lot of fun defending Charleston Harbor against the Luftwaffe last month. We were about to go into heavy guerrilla actions and they were going to get a hell of a surprise when they tried their big “secret landing”. :slight_smile: The idea is, we’re using modern Google Maps because it’s easy, but positing a world of World War II level military technology (there’s a backstory, I forget it. Just assume - modern maps, World War II tanks.)

So, I don’t know what the map looks like yet, but I do know that I have no idea what tanks are for. We have tanks and we have infantry, and the ability to call in artillery fire. It’s a small-scale battle - I think I have ten tanks. It’s part of a much larger battle, but we’re trying a more focused battle this time. I can assume that our goal will be some objective downtown in a major city and that there will be a river crossing (and I’m sure the American scum will be blowing bridges if they can.) The two live players are me and the infantry guy, and we can ask for support from the NPC tank and infantry people but essentially the idea is that we’re in charge of our own selves. I have nine regular tanks and one command tank, expecting maps and stuff today.

So what do I do in an urban environment? Do I go in fast ahead of the infantry? What sort of goals do tanks have? Should I be trying to disable their artillery? (I assume they’ll have similar forces to ours, possibly with militia as well, and obviously the citizens of Columbia will not be all that thrilled with Panzerfest '09.) How did infantry work with armor in the time period? What kind of countermeasures would you take against a bunch of tanks in an urban downtown? Barricades? (Panzerfausts?) What about tank on tank warfare? (What if a little Chinese dude with some shopping bags shows up?)

Are there some good easy to read resources on SIMPLE tactics of this nature? Seriously, I know where to go to read thousands of pages on Blah Blah Eastern Front Jesus Christ This is Boring as Shit My God Another Map? The 900’s are full of 'em. I have a degree in history, and trust me, the words “military history” make me break out in hives - I don’t want to read massive volumes on great battles of World War II, I want easy to understand explanations of the kinds of tactics in use at the time, I guess. “Tanks are good for these things. Send your tanks here, NOT here.”

This line made me lose my shit. :smiley:
I wish I could help… but I got nothing.

Tanks in WW2 were infantry support vehicles primary used to break through fortified infantry positions. (Or so thats what the history channel taught me). Also a good article on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_warfare

See the section, second world war.

Ha! I just got our maps, and he’s decided to fuck with me JUST because he knew I was expecting to have to take the city. It seems we’ve already taken it and must now defend it from freedom fighters - uh, I mean insurgents. God, how the hell do you DEFEND something with a tank? Stand behind it?

ETA - actually, we’re to hold what we have and advance on Fort Jackson? Jeez, this war thing is hard. I don’t even know where to start looking for the Americans - one assumes it may not be wise just to roll down Gervais Street, but won’t there be problems taking tanks down little streets? Vulnerable to ambush? How do tanks respond to in-city fighting, possibly with guerillas?

To put it simply, Tanks are for Attacking. Even if you’re on the defense, you use the tanks to counterattack your enemy after he hits your lines. But don’t attack head on. A tanks mobility should be exploited by attacking the enemy on his sides, or flanks.

Urban terrain is tough on tanks because it negates much of a tanks advantages. Infantry need to be placed around your tanks to keep enemy infantry from getting close enough to use anti-tanks weapons. In the city, attack with infantry using the tanks for fire support (i.e. using their big cannons on enemy positions that are too tough for the infantry alone).

Most everything else I had to say is negated by your scenario. But basically, use the tanks to support the infantry attacks and use the infantry to keep your tanks safe from the enemy infantry sneaking up on them.

There’s a very strategic spot you can park near Richland Mall, just off Forest Drive.

At least, the F.A.P.D. believes it, and I can testify to its effectiveness in catching speeders. Should work good at catching insurgents as well.

Also beware of hidden anti-tank guns - rubbled buildings make excellent cover for them, and they can spoil most tanks’ days if they get a side or rear shot. Man-portable AT weapons aren’t too dangerous beyond a hundred, maybe one-fifty yards, but an actual AT gun will match your tanks for range, pretty much.

If you’re carrying smoke rounds, these can be an effective way of suppressing an enemy hardpoint while your assault troops get in close, especially if they have demo charges or flamethrowers.

Beware of mines. Also, as a rule don’t use tanks to ram into buildings.

Tanks can be effective divide-and-conquer tools - sat a safe distance from the enemy ready to sweep streets especially with machinegun fire if the enemy try to move, while your infantry mop up one block after another.

–Mal, Squad Leader player from way back.

Rule number one: don’t send tanks into cities.

Rule number two: if you have to send tanks into cities, for God’s sake, send them in with more infantry than you can count.

See: Grozny, Battle of.

Urban warfare is slow, it’s exhausting, and it’s three-dimensional: bad guys hide above, below, in front, and behind. That’s why most mechanized armies (heck, ALL armies) try to avoid fighting in urban areas. Unfortunately, the world keeps getting more and more urban, so this is a challenge that isn’t going away.

Of course, if you’re fighting a total war, then you can use artillery and airpower to great effect in simply leveling the city. That was the popular tactic in World War II, but not one that is politically palatable in 2009 (unless, again, you’re the Russians). Alas, even leveling a city doesn’t really solve the problem-- it just creates debris that’s even easier for the enemy to hide in.

Anyway, the ideal tank tactic for cities is simple: go around them, and strike in the enemy’s rear logistical areas (while cutting off the city from resupply, ala what the Soviets did to Stalingrad in Operation Uranus).

As has been said, tanks are not very effective in cities.

Consequently, their use should be reversed as opposed to how you would use them in open terrain. In open areas tank units use speed and raw power to punch through enemy lines and disorient the enemy.

In urban areas tanks are usually used very conservatively, staying behind infantry and providing them with fire support when needed. Ensure their flanks are protected and place them in positions with good, and relevant, lines of fire to support infantry.

Right.

Basically, urban fighting devours armies, especially vehicles. You should expect city fighting to destroy lots of tanks. Put in very simplistic terms, the reasons are threefold:

  1. Cities are enormously complicated terrain, with a lot of vertical differences not present in wilderness. It’s hard to guard flanks or anticipate enemy directions of advance; enemies are frequently shooting down on you or sneaking under you through sewer lines. City terrain is cramped and small; it’s hard for lots of units (lots of tanks) to support each other, so you get more cases of isolated forces getting picked on.

  2. Cities have short ranges. It’s not like you’re standing on Massanutten mountain looking at the Blue Ridge; sometimes your vision ends across the alley. This penalizes long-ranged weapons a lot; it also leads to much shorter reaction times before someone is right on top of you. It also creates more blind spots, which can be covered by splitting up into smaller groups, at the cost of becoming vulnerable to isolated attack by larger forces.

  3. Critical distance. This is a concept from animal behavior – basically there’s a point of relative distance from an enemy at which an animal stops seeking to flee and turns to attack. Outside that distance the animal avoids; inside that distance it’s melee. This is how lion-taming works – the lion isn’t tame, he’s merely confused by the human expertly exploiting his critical distance, coming almost close enough to trigger attack but hovering right at the line, keeping the lion from being comfortable in moving away. In warfare, enemies right on top of you seem to trigger especially savage encounters. The effect is psychologically very strong. Defenders are territorial and threatened; attackers are on a hair trigger; suddenly one or the other is RIGHT THERE and everybody goes nuts. Supposedly the ratio of fatalities to wounds or prisoners is much higher in city fighting because of this.

In game terms, I would identify my least useful infantry (if there are differences among infantry units) and deploy them forward, moving around to discover enemies (scouting). Stronger infantry would be deployed in mutually-supporting knots along the main line of resistance, to shoot what the scouts find. Tanks would be held back behind these “hedgehog” positions and brought forward to destroy concrete strongpoints and buildings once you identify them as enemy-occupied. But against enemy tanks, your tanks do not come forward for a fair fight; instead, they move out to the sides of the enemy’s advancing column and seek to strike it in the flank while its attention is fixed on approaching/attacking the infantry hedgehogs in your main line, while the hedgehogs are (of necessity) left to fend for themselves.

I giggled like a loon at the last sentence. :smiley:

This is all super-helpful information! Unfortunately, we are tanks, and we are in the city - nothing to do be done about it. I am now informed that our objective is just to keep the city (and I got a very nasty note from my superior officer about asking stupid questions - geez, the Nazis are assholes!) and that we have antiaircraft guns that aren’t on the map yet that we’ll want to defend as well.

We have to decide ourselves exactly what to hold, and what we can defend. It’s a sticky problem - Columbia is flat. There’s a river on one side, and other than that I just don’t think it’s defensible at all. I don’t know where the hell we’re going to end up fortifying. The city is intact - mostly evacuated, but no rubble at this point. Our high command wants it kept that way, too. Their army is likely to come at us from the east (Fort Jackson), but insurgents could come from anywhere, and there are a hell of a lot of tall buildings for them to be in.

Assuming barricades and fortifications, and you don’t know yet where to expect enemy forces, we’d use the same hedgehog strategy, Sailboat? Wait behind the barricades, see where they go, hope they give us a flank?

ETA - KneadtoKnow, my Oberubersturmvonhassenpfeffer didn’t tell me “Hold Forest Acres!” Geez, do you want to see me clipped?

Well, just so long as the Eastover Anschluss goes well. Oh, and keep an eye on the northern borders. I hear there’s a Free Fairfield movement gaining strength in the underground.

:slight_smile:

Oh, come on. Nobody wants to put their lebensraum in Eastover.

Yeah, Russia poked a large hole in the German lines in Operation Uranus.

Force them to give you a flank by using depth. scatter the hedgehogs/strongpoints like the “5” side ona a die (terrain permitting) – don’t have one front line but a deep zone with pockets that can, if possible, defend from any direction. The enemy will have to pass some to get at the heart of your formation, allowing you to hit the flanks – or else stop at the fringe and start working over the nearest hedgehog, at which point your scouts find his position and you can send pincers of tanks at his flanks.

In theory.

I can definitely see how that’s a hell of a lot harder with all those buildings in the way.

You’re Nazis, right? So you get to play the evil card all you want? Send some infantry to the apartment buildings/refugee camps, as the case may be, sweep up women & children. Tie them to your tanks and fortifications as human shields. Make announcements that for every Nazi soldier killed, 5 hostages will be executed. Psychological warfare.

We are, yes, bastards. I was on the other side for the Battle of Charleston Harbor and I wasn’t getting the land reports, but all this stuff started showing up on my maps - “Reported location of mass graves”, “Internment camps?” etc. Now the tables have turned and I is the Nazis, and ve vill take your suggestions under consideration. :slight_smile:

I shall requisition stakes immediately for the heads of our enemies. (I’m sure there’s a lot of paperwork involved.)

Ok, I have to know, what game are you playing? It sounds horribly interesting.