Tell me about your Nissan Leaf - need answer (kind of) fast

In My Humble Opinion
1

Mr. Kalea’s car has blown a head gasket. The cost to repair his 1993 Civic is more than the car is worth by a long chalk, so we’re looking to acquire a new car. I love my 2009 Honda Fit, but want to walk my environmental talk and am looking at an electric car. We live in Washington State, and pay a bit extra to get all of our power from renewable sources like the PSE Vantage Wind Farm (~$.11/kWh including taxes). My round-trip commute is ~30 miles, including errands.

Mr. Kalea doesn’t like Toyota or Chevrolet (it’s a long story) so Prius and Volt are out. We can’t afford a Tesla, so we’ve narrowed it down to either another Fit or a Leaf.

My specific questions (but feel free to offer any other info/opinions you may have):
[ul]
[li] Talk to me about charging - how long it really takes, your experience with different charging systems and their installation process, mid-drain charging, etc.[/li][li] What was your experience with the tax credit? Was the process difficult?[/li][li] How badly to things that draw power (heat, headlamps, radio, etc.) affect your range?[/li][li] What accessory packages are worth it? I tend towards basic functionality, but are there things that are really worth it?[/li][li] I hope nobody has had an accident, but if so, how were the safety features? What about getting repairs outside of the dealership?[/li][li] What else should I know or consider while making this decision?[/li][li] In all, do you think it was worth it?[/li][/ul]

We’ll be buying in the next few days, as we really need to be a two car family, so any help you can provide quickly is appreciated!

2

I live in MN, and have had a Leaf for a little over 2 years. In the depths of our winters, the range drops to ~30-40 miles, but you should be OK. Especially if you aren’t a lead foot like DH and I are.

We installed a 240V charger in our garage (~$800 plus an electrician if you use one). It charges in 2.5-3 hours or so, we just plug in whenever we get home from any trip and leave it plugged in until we leave again (the charger shuts off automatically when it’s done). The 120V trickle charger takes much longer - 10-12 hours. They may have faster charging alternatives now.

The only difficulty was that the form to fill out wasn’t released by the IRS for that year until February, so we couldn’t get our taxes done until later than we like. We just filled out the form and got the refund in the mail, same as any other tax refund.

Heater and A/C affect it some, but it doesn’t drop the range a LOT. In the winter, if we want to extend the range we’ll turn off the heat and just use the seat warmers.

I’m not sure what packages are being offered now, but the navigation system is quite good, and I like having bluetooth for my phone - both for talking and for music.

The only “accident” we’ve had was when I drove over a nail and needed a new tire. I was able to drive home and we had to take off the tire and bring it to the dealership separately because the car only came with a patch kit, not a spare.

Haven’t tried this, haven’t needed anything. (No oil changes! Whee!)

There’s a guy online who revamps trickle chargers to be either 120V or 240V, so you can have a backup 240 if your main charger is unavailable. Since we have a 240V outlet in our garage, it’s a nice bonus.

I also recommend checking with your work to see if they’ll install a charger in the parking lot. A few of us at my employer are trying that right now.

It will increase your electric bill, but it’s still cheaper than gas.

Yes, it’s a TON of fun to drive, and start remotely with the app on our phones (preheated in the winter and precooled in the summer!). We are seriously thinking of trading it in for a Tesla Model 3 when they come out, though, because the range is too limited here in the winter. DH has a ~50 mile commute, so in the winter it becomes my car. He doesn’t really like driving our other car, so it’s an experiment with mixed results for us. We have noticed a decrease in range over the last couple of years, so the temp in the winter when the car goes from “his car” to “my car” is more like 30 degrees rather than the 15 it was at first. Again, it’s something we only notice when we’re pushing the range. It’s our regular “errand running car” on the weekends, and works really well for that.

3

Not a Leaf owner but just noticing that you did not include the Ford Energi PHEVs (C-Max and Fusion) as in your list as considerations rejected already.

Any reason why?

My C-Max Energi typically gets 20 to 21 all electric and then I typically run low 40 mpg when on gas. Seats five nicely and fun to drive including as a road trip vehicle from Chicago to NJ to Maine and back. It does turn on the ICE when I run the heater in cold weather and sometimes in winter just because it has not been on in a while (so called “oil maintenance mode”) which aggravates some though.

4

It’s a shame the Prius is off limits - after three months absolutely loving it.

5

One question can be answered by the Tesla FAQ: How long does it take to charge? Most drivers report, just a few seconds, as they plug it in when they get home and it’s fully charged by morning.

Too bad Tesla isn’t an option–they just announced upgrades to the Roadster so it has a 400 mile range. Granted, $100k is a bit spendy for a daily driver, but still…

6

if you only have a standard 120 volt outlet available for charging, think twice. A full charge (meaning, charged from nearly “empty”) of the Leaf at 120 volts/12 amps can take up to 20 hours. If you have access to or can get a 240 volt, 30 amp charging point installed, then the recharge time is less than overnight and then the car makes a lot more sense.

7

A level 2 charger (the sort that runs on 240 volt, 30 amp) typically costs about $1000 to install and can charge a Leaf fully in about 4 hours. If you go with a PHEV (like my C-Max Energi or a Volt) then the battery is smaller so it recharges more quickly and there is no real need for installing a level 2. Of course most of the time you are not recharging from empty. Most people drive less than 40 miles in a day and for that much a typical overnight charge will work with plenty of time to spare.

8

You really should include the Ford options in your deliberations.

9

A question that should be addressed is raised by the fact that your motivation is to walk your environmental talk. In that regard it must be noted that most of the negative environmental impact of an EV is front-loaded, associated with the production of its battery and made up by its lower impact during the use phase. A Leaf will, by most analyses, especially in an era in which coal power plants are being replaced by natural gas ones, be a net environmental benefit over its lifetime … but. The argument can be made that there is greater benefit to be gained by right-sizing the battery to your typical daily use. The simple reality is that a Leaf’s battery provides a range two to three times greater than most users will use on the vast majority of driving days in order to be able to have the range needed a small fraction of the time. Producing that battery is where most of its lifecycle environmental impact comes from.

One can argue that there is greater environmental good to be gained by getting a PHEV with a battery only large enough to handle the vast majority of your daily commutes with the car functioning as a moderately efficient hybrid for the infrequent greater than that occasions. With the bonus of course of the utility of being able to go much farther on the even rarer occasions such is required.

Another issue with that analysis is the unknown possibility of having to replace the battery at some point in a vehicle that otherwise should last a very very long time. Replacing a 7.6 kWh battery pack (Ford’s Energi line) or even a 16 kWh one (the Volt) will be less costly (in both dollars and environmental impact) than the Leaf’s 24 kWh one.

Just something to throw in your mix.

10

There’s also the Focus electric which is a pure EV like the Leaf.

11

All I can add is I know two people who bought the Leaf. Both had switched to the Prius within a year.

12

what does this mean?

13

It’s a reasonably-affordable, well-built car which provides excellent gas mileage and few of the limitations of an electric car. The disadvantage of burning a relatively small amount of gas are usually balanced, for most people, against the disadvantages of an electric car, which are usually range and charging time.

14

It is a shame the Prius is off limits. I’m on my 3rd one (including the one I totalled and walked away from unscathed) and recommend them highly. It’s just an awesome, normal-to-operate car that gets 47 MPG all the time.

I got my most recent one as a one year old CPO (certified pre-owned) and got a whopping 1/3 off the price of the same car new. Plus it has every bell and whistle that most folks think come only with luxury cars- bluetooth, navigation, back-up camera, sunroof, leather, airbags for your knees, heated mirrors, etc.

Here’s a bit of trivial information about a Prius: It will hold your full sized upright bass, your stool, and your amp.

15

Rent until Mr Kalea sees the 2016 Volt (spring 2015).

It’s stupid to rule out manufacturers, although I am not personally immune to the same stupidity.

16

Overall a fair assessment except for the charging time part. As someone whose car is a plug-in hybrid EV I can tell you that the charging time is an inconsequential item. I pull-in my driveway, take five to ten seconds and plug it in, and it is charged in the morning. No disadvantage at all. The (admittedly infrequent) times I need to go to the gas station is the time disadvantage compared to an all EV.

Most of the EV and PHEV options are also much more fun to drive than the Prius

17

I’d say the big issue for recharging the smaller EVs is if you run some errands on the way home from work and burn through most of your 30-40 miles, then realize you need to go back across town to pick something up… you can’t. You’re stuck until morning. Mitigated by having a second vehicle (either gas-powered or another electric), if that’s an option.

18

That’s double listing the range issue though.

True though that in a very cold climate the range can be limiting (and in very hot climates durability of the air cooled battery can be a concern).

OP though is in Washington State. Pretty mild weather there so their range will stay up near advertised, more than two, close to three times, as much as stated is needed for the typical 30 mile including errands daily driving. Plus Washington State has an extensive and expanding public (including rapid) charging network, so finding place to charge on prolonged additional errands if needed should not be so difficult and even reasonable road trips are a possibility.

And even without the wind power premium our OP opts for they have a very green power supply grid (heavy on hydro).

19

it’s also affected by whether you have charging stations available at work. my employer just put in a bunch which employees can sign up to use; you get an RFID card which you scan to start charging. If I had a reasonable way to recharge at home I would be thinking very, very hard about buying an electric Focus.

20

Chief Pedant, I agree. I would love to get a Prius. Mr. Kalea refuses, he calls them “Priss” ~ I think he watched the South Park Prius episode and got it into his head that everyone who drives one is a smug bastard. :dubious: Chevy is out because of family history that I don’t fully understand.

Ethilrist, I would love to get a Tesla, but there’s no way we could afford payments on $100K.

I would love the VW eGolf they are currently advertising, but they aren’t available yet (what the heck - actually releasing a 2015 model year car in 2015???) and Smart is out because of their terrible US safety rating.

I hadn’t considered the Ford Energi and will do some research. The C-Max looks like an SUV (is that right?) so that’s probably more car than we need as DINKs; we’re more likely to look at the Focus.

DSeid, I appreciate your comments about right-sizing and replacing the battery. That’s definitely something to consider, and I’ll need to do some reading about battery manufacturing. I’m not sure there’s a lot of literature about longevity and replacement costs, but if anyone can recommend reading on either topic, I’d love to see it.

jz78817, we would probably purchase the 240v station and have my friend the master electrician install it, based on MN_Maenad’s comments (thanks!)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Additional info is welcome: We’re going to test drive the Leaf tonight, Honda (and now possibly Ford) tomorrow, with an eye to purchase on December 31. Mr. Kalea is a master negotiator, and thinks he can get us some extra off if we hard bargain on New Year’s Eve.