Looking back on bad times in my life, I can sometimes see that eventually, good has come about as an indirect result of the whole thing; that’s not to say that the bad things were in fact good, or even necessary; arguably greater good may have come about by some other means, without the bad things having happened.
In any case, telling people (even if they are believers) that “it’s all part of God’s plan” is nearly always a supremely insensitive thing to do.
IMHO, The only context in which the phrase has any merit is self-examination, in the sense that sometimes it is possible to look back and say “that sucked, but I wouldn’t change it”.
That phrase would push a minister friend of mine to near anger. He despised the “part of God’s plan” phrase. Suffering and death are just part of the human condition. Telling someone that their pain is part of God’s plan is a good way to make someone think of God as a sadistic demon.
I know that, Lib, and I don’t begrudge you your offerings of condolences and I know your heart’s in the right place and all that … but it’s not a matter of religious beliefs as much as it is a matter of English.
He stated that he is an atheist and that people who offered condolences in the form of “God this and and that” were upsetting him, and then you give him the “God keep you” routine.
What’s wrong with praying for him on your own time and not throwing back in his face that which is upsetting him?
And by the way, I know I let the thread get the better of me so I hope Revtim knows that I feel a great deal of empathy for him – I can’t say I share all those experiences with him, but I’ve had the shit in life at times too. I wish the best as well.
I was under the impression that the complaint was about the “It’s God’s will”/“It’s part of God’s plan” attempts at comforting, which suggest that God is purposely doing horrible things to the OP.
When my father died, I grudgingly realized that people were trying to be comforting to me by saying those things, but I commented to myself outside of their hearing, “I don’t believe that God put out a hit on my dad.”
I was addressing the point that the OP stated he was an atheist. Why is that a hard thing to respect? Why is that any harder than respecting a Christian in his views.
This really is a double standard that gets on my nerves – and this thread may not be the best place to dredge it up. Maybe I’ll make a foray in GD with this one … but don’t hold your breath. I have things to do today, and I’d hate to start a Debate thread only to dissappear on it.
Well, Jack, think of it like this if you can. I’m calling upon my God to bless him. I’m not calling upon him to believe in my God. He might be an atheist, but that doesn’t mean that he is a hand-stabbing anti-theist. You might ask your dad to do me a kindness when I don’t have a dad, and I wouldn’t think you disrespect me for it.
I am sure whomever said that was trying to comfort you in some way. The trouble with that is that people tend to relate more in terms of what would make them feel better if it happened to * them* without taking into account that others may not share their religious beliefs.
This is right on par with telling a woman who just miscarried that “it’s probably for the best” or even worse “it’s God’s way of getting rid of babies who probably would have been deformed” or some such drivel. This is usually pitched by the same people who say God doesn’t make mistakes.
A simple “I’m sorry” is always appropriate. Sometimes it is better to say nothing at all and just listen.
Well, Lib, think of it like this, if you can. Feel free to call on your God until the cows come home, but why bother an atheist with it when he doesn’t believe in it?
I have no problems with Christians praying for me, but it’s a waste of time to inform me of it.
I apologize for some of the content of my post. I do wish for you comfort for your grief and blessings for your future. And I do remain available if you have any need for a sympathetic ear.
Having people tell me my dad was now in a better place, or that it was all part of some damned plan, gave me something to feel besides grief, at first. Most important of all, it eventually taught me tolerance and I started to be able to appreciate the spirit of what was said or done. When you let go of all the shoulda coulda woulda’s, just let things be and don’t see it as a personal offense, life is so much easier and happier. Funny how it took Buddhism to help me get over Christianity.
Lib, that was so sweet I nearly wept. I wasn’t offended in the least by your last statement. Thank you so much for your kindness, your offer is very touching. Fortunately, I’m with family now, and we are supporting each other. Peace be with you, my friend.
Revtim, you may feel like you are in a fog right now. A lot of people who have lost loved ones go through that. It’s part of grieving. You must feel terrible and I wish that I could make it easier for you, but I can’t. Just don’t expect too much of yourself at the moment. The honesty about your feelings that you have shown here is a good thing.
The day will come when your father’s death is no longer the first thing that you think of in the morning. You will have begun to heal your wounds. It takes time.
You mentioned a return of anxiety. It would be appropriate to talk with your physician about something to relieve that part of you burden for right now. Most doctors are very understanding when there has been a loss in the family.
Revtim, my thoughts and sympathies are with you during this very difficult time. I’m really sorry that your life has been so rough lately (although it’s good you have family to support you and be supported by you), and I, for one, will be fervently hoping that your outlook gets brighter in the very near future!
That will be a fine day when I stop waking every morning before dawn with my heart pounding in my chest. Thank you for your kind words and concern.
I should point out that even though the “God’s plan” thing doesn’t exactly help, I still appreciate their attempts made to console me. Just knowing that these people are concerned and and attempting to make me feel better does help.