Cecil Writes: “The medieval version of tennis, therefore, was based on 60–the four points when 15, 30, 45 (which we abbreviate to 40)…”
Huh? That sounds like a cop-out to me. While we’re at it, let’s abbreviate 15 to “10.” OR, we could just say “1,2,3, game!”
-Tofer
Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, tofergregg, glad to have you with us.
When you start a thread, it’s helpful to other readers if you provide a link to the column under consideration. Yes, it’s on the front page now, but in a week’s time, it will be lost in the Archives and require searching time etc. So, providing the link helps keep us all on the same page, and save time.
No biggie, you’ll know for next time. In this case: Why is tennis scoring so weird?
It’s not surprising that a sequence should find some abbreviation and some not. Especially since, in French, “forty-five” is a mouthful (many syllables), where there’s a beat/rhythm/meter to saying “15, 40, 60” – they’re all two-syllable words. The sequence “15, 45, 60” is much less regular.
Words are abbreviated, not numbers. Numbers are rounded.
Nobody says 40 in place of 45; it just doesn’t make sense. Imagine having a flight scheduled to leave at 3:45pm and you, huffing and puffing, show up at the gate at 3:24pm. Well, sorry, since 3:45pm really meant 3:40pm and airlines close their gates 20 minutes prior to departure, your non-refundable ticket is worth about as much as a sheet of TP.
Assuming Dexter’s explanation of french pronounciation extends to “15, 30, 40”, I’m in agreement with tofergregg in that they should have stuck to “1,2,3, game!”
Another question. A score of zero, in English, is refered to as “love”. What do the French call it?
BTW, Cecil’s comment about “tennis” deriving from “tenez” (“Hold!”), makes more sense when you realize that, in 12th-13th century French, “tenez” would be pronounced “ten-ezz”:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8716/chapter1.html
z originally pronounced like ‘zz’ in pizza, except before a vowel, where it was pronounced as ds in adds. After the thirteenth century, z was pronounced like s in English say, except before vowels where it was pronounced like modern English z in zest.
Hullo to all you linguageeks out there.
But when numbers are spoken they are words, n’est pas?
Quinze, trente, quarante just flows more nicely. That’s all he’s saying.
I would have thought that the reason for abbreviating, or rounding down (whatever one chooses to call it) to 40, was that 45 is seen as being a deuce with an advantage.
So the incremental scoring would be like this:
0, 15, 30, 40 (deuce if equal), 45 (deuce w/advantage), 60/game.
I guess I just figured that would be more intuitive.
<< Quinze, trente, quarante just flows more nicely. That’s all he’s saying. >>
Yes, thanks Andrew, flows better than quinze, trente, quarante-et-cinc.
First, I’d like to point out that that was the most typographically error filled answer I’ve ever seen. Proofreader on vacation, Cecil?
But more on-topic, there’s a related question I’ve always wondered about. Why is the score of 30-30 NOT referred to as deuce? It seems to me that the requirements for deuce are met here as well as at 40-40 (and beyond). Beginning at 30-30, one player must win two consecutive points to win the game.
This is certainly true. I’ve played against players who use the terms ‘30-deuce’ or just ‘deuce’ when calling out the score in a 30-30 game. I have to say that I prefer using ‘30-all’ when calling out this score though.
To make things more confusing, it is not uncommon for players to substitute ‘five’ for ‘fifteen’ when calling out the score…30-5, 5-40, etc. It is just a form of shorthand. That being the case, I can understand Cecil’s answer regarding 45 being shortened to 40. It’s just a matter of what is easier to say and to annunciate to the player standing all the way on the other side of the court.
It seems that all theories on the origins of tennis scoring are just that. Here’s a link to a pretty nice explanation which expands a little on what Cecil says. Still - not proven though but a good story anyway.
You can decide whether you believe it or not. 
My scientific research (based on watching the French Open etc) reveals that they use zéro - eg “Quinze zéro” for 15-0. Deuce is égalité.
I’ve never quite been able to catch what they say for “all”. It sounds to me like they use the English word - “Quinze all” - but pronounced more like “Al”.
As r_k noted in France we say zéro for love. But when the score is 15-15 or 30-30 we say “15 a” or “30 a”.
Most people I asked say that they say it 'cos when they hear “30 all” on TV it’s easier for them to say “30 a” instead of “30 all”.
you people know NOTHING about tennis. first off the scoring is simple, 15, 30, 40, then either duce or game. and after duce it is either add in or add out … there is no 60. game is just game. and 30-30 CAN be refurred to as duce, its just that there are 2 more required points in the game anyways so there is no point in saying it. … any more questions … because I would be content to answer any more that you’ve got since I have played tennis for the past 3 years. and Love means zero no matter who plays it.
This is why I love these boards. In everyday life I don’t get the opportunity to rub elbows with the truly enlightened. I really admire the way you were able to answer all of our questions with such simplicity. The fact that you clearly had no idea what we were talking about merely adds to my amazement.
I just have one thing…I think you may have made a typo in your post. You mention that you’ve played tennis for 3 years. Based on the depth of your knowledge, I assume you meant 30 years.
Thanks again for putting us on the straight and narrow. Do you have any investing advice for us?
Seems that he doesn’t
Although I see how ‘45’ can be abbreviated to ‘40’ when speaking French (when I play in Ireland we say 5 instead of 15 as already noted by others) it still seems a cop out of sorts. Just doesn’t feel right I suppose.
So did Cecil mean to imply that since tennis originated in France, that “zero” was originally called “l’amour”? Cause I still find it dubious that we’d all of a sudden start referring to it as “love” without some kind of precedent.
See my link from a few posts ago - they think it came from Dutch ‘lof’ meaning honour.
I don’t know - maybe it’s just me but I don’t find any of the “love” explanations convincing. From the ‘lof’ link (thanks for the link!), they mention that scoring zero meant no cash. But so does losing by any score, right? And just because you have nothing yet (while the first game is just 15-love) has nothing to do with the ultimate outcome. Finally, what does zero points in a game have to do with zero games won in total?
Of course, from what I’ve seen, etymological explanations that “word X from language Y was mistaken by stupid Englishmen to be Z” are almost invariably wrong, so “l’ouef” seems just as unlikely (although the link with cricket’s “duck” is interesting).
I heard somewhere that at one time the state of scoring was indicated to players on cards like clockfaces with one big hand. It would point to 15, 30 and 45